Ep #368: Six Layers of a Referral Strategy for an Interior Design Business

Stacey Brown Randall: Hey there, and welcome to the Roadmap to Referrals podcast, a show that proves you can generate referrals without asking or manipulation.

I’m your host, Stacey Brown Randall. I’m a card-carrying member of the Business Failure Club. I have taught my referrals without asking methodology and strategies to clients in more than 14 countries around the world. And my mission is to help you unleash a referral explosion by leveraging the science of referrals and respecting your relationships.

Okay, so today on our podcast, as part of our podcast takeover, we are welcoming Michele Williams. Michele Williams is the host of the Prophet is a Choice podcast, and she is going to be taking over today’s episode.

So here’s one thing I just want to make a quick note about before I tell you a little bit about Michele and why you should be so excited for this episode.

So if you typically watch our episodes now as videos on our YouTube channel, which can be found at Referrals without Asking, just a note that there isn’t a video of our interview as Michele’s podcast, Profit is a Choice, is actually audio only.

So if you hop over to YouTube, like normal, you’re like, yeah, I’m gonna watch this on YouTube. And you’re like, I see Stacey right now. And then there’s not a video as you’re listening to the interview between Michele and I, well, that’s why, just wanna give you a heads up.

Michele is a dear friend of mine. And I recognize that as I introduce each of the hosts that are taking over the podcast during this podcast takeover as our summer series, I’m probably going to sound like a broken record.

I am probably going to be like, gosh, she says everyone, she’s so excited to connect, to introduce them to us. She says that everyone is a dear friend, and it’s true.

Each of these people that you are going to hear from as they share the interview that they did with me on their podcast, each one of these folks mean the world to me.

Some of them I have known for a really long time, like Michele. Michele has actually been in my world since, I think, 2018, 2019. And others, like Jay Berkowitz, that you heard on the very first podcast of this takeover series, we met just a few months ago.

But of course, when you find a good person to become friends with and be connected with and have as a part of your network and your community, well, then you should take advantage of making sure that you make that connection and you keep nurturing that connection as well.

So a little bit about Michele before we get to the interview. Michele is the CEO of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metrique Solutions.

Her two companies focus on empowering creative professionals to own the financials of their business. But more importantly, like I said, she really is a great friend and for me, a mentor.

So if you listen to episode, this is like way back in the day, but if you listen to episode 201 and 294, I mentioned that there is someone that is a friend of mine and mentor and that helped me do some things in my business. It’s Michele.

She is the one who helped me determine my sweet spot of how I wanted to help and work with my clients, which was the catalyst for the shift in my business and the change in the model of how I work with clients almost five years ago. It’s crazy to think that it was almost full five years ago.

So Michele and I met back in 2019 when we were both co-authors of the book, A Well-Designed Business, The Power Talk Friday Tours with LuAnn Nigara.

Now, that was the start for us of a beautiful friendship. We have shared the stage through Luann’s platform as well, multiple times being at Luann Live and some other events that we have done.

And I am just so pleased to be able for you guys to get to know Michele. If there was one word that I would use to describe Michele, it is wise. Gosh, this lady is so, so wise. So I hope you enjoy her hosting this episode. Let’s get to it.

Michele Williams: Hey, this is Michele Williams from Profit is a Choice podcast. I’m doing a podcast takeover of the Roadmap to Referrals podcast this week. And this is the episode where I interviewed Stacey over on my podcast.

Stacey and I met in 2019. We were co-authors in a book with Luann Nigara, and we have been able to do multiple speaking engagements and teaching opportunities together. And I am excited to have an opportunity to take over her podcast, and I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Michele Williams: Every day, empowered entrepreneurs are taking ownership of their company financial health and enjoying the rewards of reduced stress and more creativity.

With my background as a financial software developer, owner of multiple businesses in the interior design industry, educator and speaker, I coach women in the interior design industry to increase their profits, regain ownership of their bottom line, and to have fun again in their business. Welcome to Profit is a Choice.

Michele Williams: Hey Stacey, welcome back to the podcast.

Stacey Brown Randall: Thank you so much for having me. It’s so fun to hang out with you today.

Michele Williams: Oh, I’m excited. I know you and I, we talk on a regular basis, and I think we were both shocked when we did the calculation to see how long it had been since you’re on the podcast.

But you were here back two years ago, we looked at almost two and a half by the time this airs, and that is episode 27 Referrals without Asking for a Full Pipeline. Can you believe it’s been two and a half years?

Stacey Brown Randall: I can’t. I mean, when you said that, I was like, no, it hasn’t been that long. I mean, like, Michele, why are you holding out on me?

Michele Williams: I know, right? I think because I thought we had just talked. And I was like, wait a minute, we haven’t talked since then.

You and I both were co-authors in LuAnn’s second book, but the first one from the Friday Talk Expert Series. And we met through that experience back at the beginning of ‘19.

And I think for some reason, Stacey, it’s almost like 2020 didn’t happen. So I still sometimes in my brain think of 2019 as last year. I don’t think I’m alone in that.

I think I’ve heard other people make that comment as well. So I think that’s kind of where it came from. Oh, yeah, that was last year. No, that was two years ago.

Stacey Brown Randall: I also think as we get older, we just don’t remember as well.

Michele Williams: Let’s not talk about older. I’d really like to talk about it in a different way.

Stacey Brown Randall: I’m totally kidding. I know it’s been crazy that it’s been that. I mean, I think about the very first time I met you was at High Point, at The Market, when we were there speaking as part of LuAnn’s panel of experts.

And I think that was actually the fall of ‘18. When is fall Market High Point? Like November, October or something. And it was like, that’s the first time we met.

And then we’ve just done so much together and so many things have happened since then. It just feels like maybe it’s been longer or shorter just because of that part of our life. But yeah, it’s been crazy.

Michele Williams: Okay, we’ll go with that explanation. I like that.

Stacey Brown Randall: Does that make you feel better?

Michele Williams: So much better than older.

Stacey Brown Randall: Good.

Michele Williams: Okay, so today we’re going to build on the referral strategy as a conversation point. And we were talking about, I remember a conversation you and I had probably about almost a month ago now, we were talking about looking at things through different lenses.

And you said, yeah, well, there are like six lenses looking at your referral strategy. I’m like, oh, that sounds like something we need to talk about. So that’s what we’re going to dig into today.

But before we do that, Stacey, I know that you like to really clarify terms such as what is a referral versus word-of-mouth buzz and some other things like that.

So before we begin our discussion, if you could just kind of tell us the definitions that we’re going to be working with in this conversation so that we’re all starting from the same place.

Stacey Brown Randall: Absolutely. And I think that’s such a good place to start too because it is interesting how often I will have conversations with people, and they will use terms interchangeably like they’re the same thing.

And what I have found is over time we’ve really diluted the power what a referral is, which when we dilute what we think a referral is, sometimes we don’t give it as much time and attention and focus in our business as we should.

And it’s definitely the holy grail of how people should be focused on growing their business. That doesn’t mean you don’t need other ways to grow your business, of course.

But you know, when a referral comes in, like when somebody refers you a new client, typically they already know what you do, because they’ve been referred by someone they trust, which also means they’re typically quicker to close and easier to close and a lot of times less price sensitive, because they’ve already assigned value to you because somebody else trusts you and transfers that trust to them.

So when we think about like why we want a referral, it’s like, okay, somebody comes to me from someone else, that trust has already been transferred and they understand what I do.

That doesn’t mean they’ve completely made the decision to hire you, but understanding the type of prospect when they’re referred to you and they walk in that door, they’re just a different level in terms of their willingness to move forward and to have a conversation with you than somebody who may have just been searching on Houzz and found you and decided like, oh, let me have a conversation with him or her.

And so it’s just a different level of type of prospect that walks through the door when they’ve been referred to you.

So what I always say is then for as business owners, what we have to recognize is, well, what is the referral when they walk in the door? And they have two things. One, personal connection, and two, need identified.

And so when a referral source, which is what I call the person who refers you, when your referral source refers you a potential new client, typically, what we want them to do is to make the connection to that prospect, to that potential new client.

We want them to make the connection from the referral source to you to the prospect because that’s where the trust transfer continues.

I would say like 90-something percent of the time, this is going to happen over email, but it could happen in a group text thread. It could also happen one day when we get back to being in person.

It could also happen when you’re at an event and like someone’s like, oh my gosh, you got to meet my designer. Here is a new client for you. Like it could happen in that scenario as well.

But I think it’s important for people to recognize there’s always a personal connection. You’re always going to be connected to the prospect by the referral source.

And the second thing is the prospect, they know they’re a prospect. They are in buyer mentality mode. They’ve identified they have a problem or something they want to solve or something they wanna do. And they’re looking for someone to tell them direction in which to go.

So they’re looking to their friend, who is your referral source, and they’re like, I need to renovate my kitchen. We’re building a new house, and I want the right design behind it.

Like they’re looking for the right person to say, hey, this is who you need to hire because they know they have a need, which means they don’t really show up necessarily as tire kickers.

Cause they’re like, no, this is why I’m willing to be connected with Michele because I need what she does, and I trust Stacey to tell me that Michele can do this job, right? It’s how you think about these relationships.

So it’s always, you’re going to be personally connected to the prospect by the referral source. And the prospect’s going to know in this scenario, they’re the prospect, they’re the buyer, they’re the ones making a decision. And that’s why they’re willing to be connected to you.

When those two pieces are there and that person shows up either in your inbox or they show up in your group text thread, however it happens, you know you get to respond differently to that client, that potential client, because they’re showing up as a referral, not as someone coming to you cold.

And it’s just important to recognize that from like filling our pipelines perspective. And then the sales process, we would put a referred prospect through, like all those things are really important to recognize how you want to respond when you receive a referral.

And then the other thing I would say is, I also want you to know when it’s so close to being a referral, but it’s not.

And so you used a term that I use a lot is well, word of mouth buzz. Like a lot of people would be like, oh my gosh, I got a referral the other day. And then they’ll tell me, I’m like, actually you did not.

You got word of mouth buzz, which means someone was talking about you. There was a need identified and somebody out there who needs you, but you don’t know who that person is because you were never connected to them by the referral source.

So when you recognize what’s missing, when something’s so close to being a referral and you recognize, wait, it doesn’t have two parts of the definition, then you know how to take action. And that’s really important too.

Michele Williams: I know I, before I even met you, one of the ways that I’ve always handled referrals is that same way. I usually do, Hey, I’m sending an email introduction. Hey, Michele, meet Stacey. Stacey, meet Michele.

Stacey, let me tell you a little bit about Michele and what she needs. Michele, this is what’s so great about Stacey and why you need her. You know, I hope you two can connect and move forward with the conversation.

And so I do a lot of those always have. And I used to always get frustrated when people would say, oh, I’ll give so and so your name. And I’m like, well, why don’t you just connect us? Because then I can reach back out.

Like if you just give them my name, I can do nothing about it on this side. I mean, I can’t call somebody and go, hey, I’ve heard that your finances are a mess and that your business really needs some help. And I think I’m here to help. I can’t do that.

Or I hear that your business is growing and is doing so awesome. I think we need to talk. I mean, that just is icky, right? That’s gross.

But if somebody were to say, you know, hey, Michele, meet this person. You know, they’re having some challenges and want to talk to you.

Or, hey, Michele, meet this person, their business is growing and exploding and they really wanna talk to you, then I can just reach in and say, hey, great, tell me a little bit about it. And we can just organically and easily continue that conversation.

But I would never just pick up the phone and call somebody and say, yeah, I heard you’re in trouble, or I heard that you’re killing it, let’s talk.

And so without that personal connection, it does put us in a very awkward position. Like we really, without being creepy, can’t follow up well.

Stacey Brown Randall: It’s so true. And I think it’s important for people to recognize if we’re looking for a way to grow our business, there’s lots of ways to do it, right? There’s lots of prospecting and marketing and tactics and tools and things that you can do.

But the truth is, from a referral perspective, it takes away, when someone is referred to you, there is none of the ickiness, right, that exists. And there’s none of the uncomfortableness. It’s like, hey, I know I have a problem. And now I want to talk to you, Michele, help me solve it.

And that is so valuable in terms of a client showing up because, you know, it’s like the person shows up and says, hey, Michele, I know my finances are a mess, but take my money, even though I don’t have that much, because I need to fix this. They’re like, here, take my money, Michele, and solve all my issues.

Michele Williams: And I’ve been told you can solve it, so help me.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes. Absolutely. It’s the best way to even engage in a conversation with a prospect. I mean, I think about it in my business, right?

When somebody comes through, and I have a couple of main ways that people are going to find my business, obviously referrals is going to be a big way that people find my business.

And I find the conversations I have with people who are referred to me to talk about getting themselves more referrals and doing it without asking, when we have that conversation and they’ve been referred to me, we have a better conversation about their business and where it stands because they already trust me.

And that is such a valuable place for me to be and for me to decide, can I even help you or do I actually need to direct you somewhere else, versus somebody which, you know, will happen another way.

Somebody may stumble across my book on Amazon and read it and then decide to reach out, which is great, too, but they’re not coming in already trusting me necessarily because they don’t have someone else vouching for me.

So it’s just a different way that we kind of pay attention to who our prospects are and what their sources are.

Michele Williams: Perfect. Okay. So when we are going to look at a referral strategy through this layering lens, we’re talking about a referral as we’ve defined it, which means there’s a personal connection and a need has been identified.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes.

Michele Williams: Correct? Okay. All right, so now that we know what the referral is for our conversation and we’re thinking about the layering of it, and I love layering just because let’s be honest.

Even with math we have to layer it and you know we don’t start first grade and they go okay here’s quantum physics or something, I mean we’re starting with counting, which then leads to addition and subtraction. You know what I mean?

There’s always a layering of concepts. And so when we think about the same thing with referrals, tell us where we start. How do we get started with this?

Stacey Brown Randall: Oh, it’s such a good question because I think it’s important for people to recognize, you know, people talk about referrals like they just fit in one silo, like, oh yeah, you just got to get referrals.

Oh my gosh, there’s so much more to it. And if we’re not careful, we can overwhelm ourselves with what we could be doing versus where we probably need to start and then layer on the other strategies if, and this is a big if, we need them.

Some people don’t. And so don’t do work you don’t need to do. So the way that I always talk about the referral strategy is first I want people to recognize there are things that you do from a business development or a sales perspective that you do that are prospecting in nature.

And then there are activities and strategy and things that you do to bring in more clients that are marketing, right?

So you may decide that your website is marketing, right? And you joining a chamber of commerce or a BNI group or something like that is gonna be prospecting.

Whereas you have those two distinct strategies in your business, I want you to add a third. And that is your overall referral strategy. I don’t ever want you to think about referrals from a marketing or prospecting perspective, because everything about it is different.

So when we think about, OK, I have a three-legged stool. I’ve got my prospecting that I do. I’ve got my marketing that I do. And then I have my referral plan that I do.

When we think about that referral strategy or that referral plan, the one place we start is determining how are we going to take care of the people who refer us now.

So layer number one, we call the existing referral source layer. And the idea here is I want to receive more referrals from the people who’ve been referring me, right? From my referral sources, I wanna receive more referrals.

So it’s about how we create a plan with the right language and the right kind of consistency. And there’s like a cadence to it for how we’re gonna take care of people.

What’s the language we’re gonna use? What are we gonna do? How are we gonna impact how they feel about us so that we can direct their thoughts to how they think about us from a referral perspective?

Because, hey, you’ve been referring me, right? I’ll just use us as an example. So Michele, you’ve been referring me, right? And I just wanna maintain a strong connection and relationship with you and do some special things so that you continue to refer me.

Here’s what happens. Everybody starts at this layer because even if you think to yourself, I don’t have any referral sources, the truth is most of the time when people do the data dive that I ask them to do to determine this step, most of the time they’re wrong.

Now, if you are brand new in business, and you haven’t even been in business two months, well, then you probably know, right? Because your memory is probably not going to fail you with just a couple of months of being in business.

But even a year or two in business, I tell folks like you’re probably forgetting somebody who may have referred you six months ago, just because it may not be top of mind for you.

So I really always tell people dig into your business data, figure out where your clients came from, and the clients that were referred to you, make sure you have names, first and last for those referral sources.

And whether you have three or 33, the truth is you have existing referral sources in your business, and we need a plan that we can take care of them, throughout the year.

Now, this is not a daily, a weekly, or even a monthly plan, but it is a plan that we’re going to take care of those people who’ve referred us in the past so we can get more referrals.

Now, some people do this and they’re like, I have three referral sources. What’s next? I’m going to need some more referral sources.

But others, they’re like, wow, I have 42 referral sources. And if I just got more from them and also could change the quality a little bit, that’s all I’d ever need.

And I’m like, good, then you don’t actually need layer number two. Most of us do, and it is a skill that most of us need to learn.

But what’s important about recognizing, do you have a strong layer number one? Do you have a strong base of existing referral sources that if you just did some things differently, you could get more and better referrals from them? Then that’s where I want you to hang out. If not, then I want you to look at layer number two.

Michele Williams: OK, before we jump to layer number two, I do remember, you know, I think one of the things that drew the two of us together, outside of being southern, was the idea that we each were looking at numbers and metrics for different things.

I was very much and am very much into the financial numbers and metrics and return on those investments. You also were into those same types of numbers on this referral marketing piece.

And I remember being challenged. I think you and I even talked about it at Luann Live back in early ‘19, two years ago, just going to keep throwing that in because it’ll make me feel better that I’ve been doing this for that long.

But I remember thinking you talked about there, having a spreadsheet or having a reporting system in your CRM, something where you could tell where the referrals came from.

And what is so interesting to me is, in my mind, like I could have told you where my top referrals came from, right? I knew who was sending me the most people, but I couldn’t quantify it. So I did not have the empirical data to stand behind it, because I hadn’t captured that.

And that’s one of the things I’ve done over the last couple of years is I have just a really great spreadsheet and I have a CRM, I use Infusionsoft and there’s a lot of layers to it, but this is fast and quick and dirty and easy for me.

And I had those on my team, you know, I have a whole operating procedure set up so that when somebody books a call with me, we go up and we update my spreadsheet that tells me who they are, what their contact information is, when they reached out, what the referral source was.

Because I ask directly, ask where they heard about me, and then I ask if they were directly referred by another person. Because sometimes they’re not coming in necessarily as the referrals in the way that you and I identified them at the beginning.

But they are coming in telling me this person said I had to reach you and because I require everybody to go through this process to stay consistent, I can see it on there. And I think there were a couple that shocked me.

But that I saw their name more than once and I don’t know that I would have recognized it if I had not kept the data to show me. And so I want to thank you for being just honest with us there and going, you need to have something to track this. Don’t just let it be a gut feeling, have some empirical data, because it’s made a difference for me to be able to see that.

So now I know where I need to spend more time and attention and who my best referral sources are, as far as those that are, you know, because some will say on here, XYZ person told me I had to call you or said that I needed to call you.

And again, I know it’s not exactly as we said it, but it’s still that same idea of keeping up with the data for who’s connecting you.

Stacey Brown Randall: Right, absolutely. And here’s what that is though. It truly is a referral. It just started out as word-of-mouth buzz that flipped itself into a referral, because the prospect did follow up and that’s how you got that information on your spreadsheet.

Yeah, what I love for the person who’s telling them you got to call Michele to then send an email too, of course. But as long as they’re making their way to you, then that’s good too, right? I mean, from that perspective, and you’re right.

Michele Williams: And sometimes they do, but you know, even if they were to connect us in email, I’m going to immediately send them back through this process.

I mean, it’s just the process that I’m going to send them through, right? But you’re right, that word-of-mouth buzz can flip into a direct referral.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes, and it’s important that like you have a system to capture it, so it doesn’t like fall through the cracks. But you’re right about the ability to go back and not go off your gut, but there’s so many times I tell folks, go with your gut, this is not one of those times.

This is one of the times I’m like, actually, your gut’s probably gonna lie to you. And so is your memory.

So I really need you to go pull out the data. And I need you to look back through it. Like, where do your people come from?

And you know, most people who go through this process, whereas, and you know I’ve said this before, it’s not a sexy step. I mean, it’s getting into the data.

It’s trying to remember if you don’t have great records of where people came from, and maybe looking back through your calendar invites or your email threads, and like searching back for sent emails you’ve sent to this person back in the day when they first came on board.

Or maybe even asking them where they heard about you, or how they first came to know you, like nothing about that process can be all that sexy and fun.

But I believe, and my folks who go through this process, and it’s the same thing you experienced when you did it, it’s empowering. It is empowering to know I can make different decisions in my business, not just from knowing who’s referring me, but what if I’m spending thousands of dollars on XYZ Legion source, and not one person says they’re coming from that.

But over here, I’m doing something, and all these people are coming over here, and I’m barely putting any energy behind it. That is eye-opening to understanding what your business is trying to tell you.

Michele Williams: Mmhmm. Well, and again, because of the way that I’ve been doing my now, they’re even putting in, I’ve heard you at XYZ conference for the last three years.

So now I’m going, okay, so that means that it’s worth it for me to go speak at that conference because I’m going to get potential clients from it. You know what I mean? My people are there.

So it’s been great. And I just want to tell you, thank you for mentioning it when you were on stage and talking about your chapter in the book that you’ve written, as well as the one that you wrote in the shared book that we did.

Because it made me come back and go, you know what? That’s not a place where my process is as tight as I want it. And I need to tighten that up. I want to know. So thank you for that.

Alright. So existing referral source layer is number one. So what is number two?

Stacey Brown Randall: So layer number two is what we call the potential referral source layer. So this is the goal of this layer is to take clients and contacts and turn them into referral sources.

This is sometimes what I tell folks is like, it’s that wish list. It’s like, oh my gosh, this person’s so well connected. I wish they would refer me.

Or this client says amazing things about me or to me about the work that I did for them. I just wish they would send more people to me just like them. They’re my dream client.

It’s that idea of you thinking about who are the clients or the contacts, I call them centers of influence, so COIs. But who are the clients and the contacts in your network that you wish were referring you?

Here’s the thing, you may wish that this to be 100 people and that’s fine. The reality is how you start turning those clients and contacts into referral sources means we’re going to identify that big old list and maybe it’s 10 maybe it’s 100 it doesn’t matter.

But then we’re going to go through a step-by-step process with a small number of them to start the process of turning them into referral sources.

Because a lot of people like they’ll put in layer number one. They’re like, okay, great. I’ve got 15 referral sources. It’s amazing. I’ve got this plan. Stacey taught me. I’m going to take care of the people with this touchpoint plan we just put into place.

It’s like six times a year, eight times a year, whatever their number is. This is how I’m going to take care of the people who’ve referred me. And they have language around that, and they know what they’re doing, and they know the cadence in which they’re doing it.

And then they say, well, I’m just gonna take this, layer one, and I’m just gonna go do it for people in layer number two, the people I wish were referring me.

And I’m always like, timeout, timeout, timeout. That’s not how it works. Because there is already a showing of action and habit in someone who refers you.

And so you can move quicker and faster in taking care of them and deepening the relationship with them and using what we call referral seed language with them, where it actually starts impacting how they think about you.

Which is how we end up ultimately getting more referrals from them, because they’ve already referred you.

Somebody who’s never referred you before, we just got to back it up a little bit. And we’ve got to think about this from the perspective of, hey, we actually do need to go through the know, like, and trust factor, right?

And we got to think through that continuum of how do we get this person to a place to where they would be comfortable putting their reputation on the line by referring someone to you.

Now for clients that love you, you can move a little bit faster, but still a client who loves you but yet has never referred you isn’t thinking about it in that way.

So there’s still a process we work through, and we go through, and it takes a little bit longer to actually identify people who we would love to refer us, who are actually capable of referring us, which is another layer to the identification, and then figuring out, okay, now how am I going to engage with them?

And there’s a process that I teach, but how am I gonna engage with them? What’s it gonna look like? And how am I gonna nurture this relationship, and what am I gonna say, right? Until they give me that first referral.

Because we know when that client that you want to refer you gives you that first referral as you’re following layer number two, well, we know where they go. They pop on over to layer number one because now they’ve referred us and they’re part of our existing referral sources.

And so they can come out of layer number two and go where we want them to go, which is layer number one. And that’s really important of a process for people to understand. These may be layers, but they are interconnected in some ways.

Michele Williams: And then once we have enough at layer number one, like you said earlier, we can skip layer number two.

And I think it’s also important, at least in my experience, Stacey, when I was identifying some people in that second layer to really think about who were the people that I, let’s say that they were clients, right?

Who are people that I have helped that I would wanna help somebody who was just like them with the same problem because that’s easy for them to speak into, right? It’s so easy.

And so I think one aspect of that that I just wanna kind of draw a line under and maybe put a little virtual highlight on is, we don’t want to do this with just any of our clients.

We want to do those do this with our clients or with those people where we want to repeat it and we know that that the leads in the referrals are quality and that they fit our ideal client.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes, and that’s really important, but here’s what I always tell folks is you need to have, and like just like you said, you need to have an understanding of who you think can give you the right referrals that you’re looking for, but I also want you to understand, you probably are going to make some mistakes.

I always tell folks we’re going to kiss a lot of frogs before we get to our princess and our princesses before we find the people who are actually not just built to refer us, but then actually willing to execute on it as well.

And it’s never going to be 100% of your clients. I tell folks, let’s aim for the 20 to 30% that we would love to have refer us, and then we can grow from there.

But recognizing even that amazing client that loves you so much may never refer you, but this other client you never saw coming does, right? And it’ll surprise you as to what they can refer you.

But knowing what you’re looking for, obviously going into this process will help you understand, well, if I know what I’m looking for in terms of ideal client, who do I believe, for my clients and contacts, can kind of provide that type of ideal client?

But just recognize you’re gonna kiss some frogs before we get to that prince and that princess of who that can actually start referring us, because it is a process and we’ve just got to work through it.

Michele Williams: Okay. So after that, then we’re taking care of those that we’re serving that are already referring to us. We’re now looking to identify some new people that could become referral sources for us.

And we are trying to turn them into that. Looking at people that have centers of influence. We’re nurturing that relationship with the hope of moving them into that first layer. What then is the third layer?

Stacey Brown Randall: Okay, so this is where we kind of start separating things out and we look at front half and back half of these six layers.

So what you do in layer number one and layer number two for your existing referral sources and the potential referral sources, I always tell folks they’re like their own bucket.

Because these are the humans that you can very well identify where you can get more referrals from and that’s ultimately what we’re looking at. Getting more from existing referral sources, taking a potential referral source, getting that first one, and then getting more from them, right?

So layer one and layer two, they’re actually interconnected. And I actually have like a one-page PDF visual of this for people to understand, okay, how does layer number one and layer number two connect? Because they are connected.

Then from those two layers basically think about it like if you’ve got two boxes and they’re interconnected then from those you got these three lines coming out of it that kind of directs us to the other four layers.

Because it’s actually not so much about developing a plan and a process, and what it’s going to look like to take care of people. Now we’re going to move into the other four layers, and it’s going to be more tactical things we can do as we’re trying to get people to consider referring us.

So the other four layers are going to be, it’s going to be what do we do in networking situations? What do we do in new client situations? And what do we do when we have a referred prospect? And then what do we do when we have a non-referred prospect?

And then it’s more so about the strategies and the skills you have to know how to plant referral seeds so that in those scenarios, you are starting early in the process to see if any of those seeds would actually bear fruit and eventually have that person, whether it’s at a networking event, a referred or non-referred prospect or new client, start referring you as well. Does that make sense?

Michele Williams: It does. So how would you title that, third one? Because that was a lot.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. So actually, I have broken it down. I actually just call it layer three, four, five, and six and they’re all much more language tactical.

Michele Williams: Okay, got it. I got it.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. And I really feel like what layer three through six, which is about that language tactical pieces of what we want to do in different scenarios, it’s still always supporting layer one and layer two.

Like it’s always going back to the same thing, which is more referrals and referrals only come from people, right? They come from humans. So we always need to be cultivating that relationship with our existing referral sources or potential referral sources.

And so really layers three, four, five, six, like when we think about them, they’re kind of funneling people into that potential referral source layer so that we can get them over to the existing referral source layer.

Michele Williams: Alright, so I’m just going to tell you my head is spinning on this one. So when you’re saying 3, 4, 5, and 6, are you talking specifically about from a networking perspective more, like I think you mentioned, like one and two would be more strategy and three, four, five and six are more tactical. Is that what I heard you say?

Stacey Brown Randall: Let’s go one step further with how we define strategy and tactical. So layers one and two are strategy based on people we’ve identified. Whether they are referring us or we want them to, it’s a strategy, it’s a plan we have.

Michele Williams: For the people that we know.

Stacey Brown Randall: Right, for the people that are already referring us and we want more, or the people that we wish were referring us.

Michele Williams: Right, because we either work with them or have a relationship with them or something. So it’s people identified and known.

Stacey Brown Randall: Right, and so it’s that strategy of what we do with the humans. That’s how I like to think about it, the strategy we do with the humans.

And that’s one and two, versus actually what I refer to when you think about tactical, it’s the language tactical piece for layers 3, 4, 5, and 6.

And there are four times, I mean, I think you can make the argument there more than this, but I like to bucket into these four times when I want you to have some tactics around the language you speak to plant referral seeds in four different scenarios.

So one of those will be networking. One of those will be new clients and your client experience. Another one will be prospects that are referred to you. And the last one will be prospects that are not referred to you.

There are language tactics in each of those four scenarios that you can plant referral seeds to see if we can like drum up an interest for those folks to eventually down the line refer us, which pushes them into layer number two and eventually over to layer number one.

Michele Williams: Okay, so I’m going to tell you in my brain how this breaks out and tell me if I am understanding it correctly in the way that like if I’m a note taker, right, which I am.

So layer number one. And I think that you said something that that made it connect with me. And that is the whole goal here is about how to get people into layer one.

Ultimately, the whole goal, the goal is to get people to be a referral source. And I think that’s what I can’t forget, right?

Because otherwise, it’s almost like your brain wants to take you down solving some other problem. And I mean, at least for me.

So if we’re looking at it and we’re saying, what is the problem I want to solve? Or what is the outcome that I want? My outcome is that I want more people, more quality people to be a referral source, right?

So number one, if I understand correctly, is known referral sources. They are actually actively referring us to people that we enjoy working with or have an opportunity to work with or whatever, and we’re going to take care of them.

Number two is potential resource layer. So this is people that we know, like you said, they’re known and identified, but they’re not currently referring us.

So we’re going to be doing the work to build relationship, to plant those seeds of referral, to give them information, to help them become a referral partner. And when they become that referral partner or referral source, we move them into number one.

So there could be a time where number one, if you will, is loaded up and number two is empty. There could be a time where we have people that are in number one and some that are in number two because we’re still kind of working out that relationship and giving them the ability to refer us, right?

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes.

Michele Williams: Okay. Then if we look at three, four, five, and six, we’ll say that the four of those together are tactical language based on where we are with these particular people types.

Stacey Brown Randall: Like in situations.

Michele Williams: Yeah, situations. So let’s just say number three. And I wrote them down in the order you said, so I’m just going to use that order.

Number three would be language tactical for networking. Number four, would be language tactical for new clients and that client experience.

Number five would be the language tactical piece for referred prospects. And number six would be the language tactical piece for non-referred prospects.

Stacey Brown Randall: Perfect.

Michele Williams: Did I do that right? Okay.

Stacey Brown Randall: You nailed it.

Michele Williams: Okay.

Stacey Brown Randall: And I’ll tell folks, if they were like, okay, that was such a,

Michele Williams: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. With the goal of while we’re networking and while we’re getting these new clients and while we’re working with people that have been referred and not referred, not only that we are serving them in the situation that we are meeting them in, but in addition that we are planting those seeds, because they may choose not to work with us, but they may know somebody else who could.

Stacey Brown Randall: Absolutely. Or they may never be in a situation to be able to work with us, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be a contact, not a client, but a contact that could eventually send people to us. Absolutely.

And so I think it’s important when people think about this, and if it’s helpful, I have a link on my website where we literally just have this PDF when you can just go get it and be like okay let me visually see these boxes as Stacey’s been talking about these six layers.

And it’s just staceybrownrandall.com/layering so really it’s just a one pager, it’s pretty, it’s in color but you’ll see layer one and layer two, just as you described it, they are interlocking boxes that are together.

And then the other side of the PDF is like, okay, you can see distinct these other four opportunities for those language tactics.

Michele Williams: Okay, so when you say language tactics, are you just talking about in general, and I know you’ve got a book and you have training and all of that, but just to understand that concept, are you talking about just the way that we speak about things?

I’ll tell you, it was funny, I remember doing an educational event, oh gosh, probably all the way back in 2009, 2010, and at the end of it, I just directly said, you know, it was a small gathering, so it was people that I enjoyed, it was people in our industry.

And I just made the comment, you know, hey guys, I’ve really enjoyed serving you, I’ve enjoyed helping you. If you know other people that are challenged the same way, you know, I’d love an opportunity to work with them too.

And so, you know, if there’s a way that if you want to introduce us, I would be happy to take care of them the way I’ve taken care of you. And I would look at that as a seed that I was dropping, because I wasn’t forcing anything. It was just a, if this worked for you, tell somebody and I’ll help them too.

And I think sometimes we forget to, I love the seed idea, we forget to drop them. But when you drop a seed, you also sometimes need to go back and water it and take care of it and help it grow a little bit, right?

Stacey Brown Randall: Absolutely. And so, you know, for some people it would feel very natural, like it did for you to say afterwards, hey, if this was helpful for you, tell somebody.

Other people would be like, oh my gosh, that’s asking for a referral. I can’t do that. And I do think there’s an important piece here where you recognize the difference between asking someone to put their reputation on the line and send someone to you that has the potential to spend money with you versus sharing it with people that may find it helpful.

And so I do think it’s important. I think those are lines that get blurred a lot in this world in terms of when we’re talking about from a referral perspective.

So I think depending on whatever side you fall on, it’s your comfort level with what that looks like, but you’re exactly right. There are moments that are going to happen, right? In your scenario, it was moments that happened at the end of training, right?

Where you’re able to say, hey, if this was helpful, right? There are moments that are gonna happen. And what I want you to be armed with is the language you’re going to use in those moments to start to see if we can plant those referral seeds that something can grow.

The truth is, we know this Michele, sometimes we throw some seeds out there and they land on concrete and they’re going nowhere but off into the wind and they’re going to be lost and they’re not going to grow roots. They’re never going to sprout.

Other times, though, we’re actually going to spread those seeds on very fertile ground and we can actually cultivate a relationship with someone that’s actually going to end up referring us. And so it’s the ability for you just to be ready in those scenarios.

And so let’s look at this from the networking perspective. When we’re in networking mode, like there’s always a lot of things happening. And I know networking’s more virtual nowadays than it actually ever was in the past, but there’s going to be back to a balance of this virtual versus in-person networking.

And so for me, what I just want to know is like when you’re in a networking event, I don’t need you to say this every single time if you don’t want to, but if you’re in a networking event and you’re having a conversation with somebody, and let me give you the perfect kind of example, takeaway.

Use this the next time you’re having a conversation with somebody, whether it’s at a networking event or at the neighborhood barbecue, it doesn’t matter to me. And somebody says, hey, Michele, how’s business?

There’s a moment in that networking when that question is almost always asked, or how’s it going? How’s business? Instead of saying it’s great, or it’s so busy, or oh my gosh, I’m so slammed, or maybe sometimes we’re being totally honest, well, it could be better, right?

Instead of those types of throwaway responses, I just want you to have the strategy, the skill, the language that says, oh, wait, in this scenario, I’m just going to say, actually, things are really good.

We brought in over 20 new students. If I was talking about it from my world, hey, business is really good. We brought in over 20 new students into my Growth By Referrals program last month, and about 70% of them all came by referrals.

It’s the ability for you to talk about this from a networking perspective about referrals in that moment. I’m not forcing the conversation. I’m hoping there’s an interest there. I’m hoping they’re saying, wow, that’s amazing.

Like when you say referrals, what do you mean? Or who’s referring you? And then I can start having the conversation with them specific to their situation.

Whether or not the person I’m talking to is a future referral source or not, I don’t quite know that yet, unless I know enough about them having a conversation, I can kind of determine it. But then I can also guide the conversation.

I can also just say, oh my gosh, business is awesome. Fifty percent of my clients last month came in from referrals. It’s bonanzas how many referrals we get from our existing clients.

Plant the seed, and then say, how’s business for you? But don’t necessarily try to engage in a conversation. It’s just the skill set I want people to have to be thinking about these opportunities.

And there’s not like in the networking box, there’s not like 50 different opportunities. There’s a couple. In the new client box, there’s not like 1,000 different opportunities to plant a referral seed with your new clients or that client experience. There’s a handful, right?

So it’s just those tactical pieces that I know will make your life easier as you’re trying to move people into box number two, so that we can get them to box number one, or layer number one.

Michele Williams: So what I love about this is I’m all about, I did a whole podcast, I’ll have to look up which one it is, but it’s called begin with the end in mind.

And what that means is what do we want the end result of our conversation to be in this particular case?

Well, at the end of it, I want them to, you know, if we are looking for it to be a referral or a prospect or whatever that we want them to become in that referral source in that layer one, if that is the end goal, then that just means, like you said, that we’re peppering our language, we’re sprinkling in these seeds or these opportunities to think about referrals.

You know, a lot of times I know that I’ve thought about somebody that I’ve worked with that I loved working with, and I would have given their name out, but I didn’t think about how to do it. And the more that they make it easy for me to think about it, the more often I would do it. Right?

Now, if somebody came up to me and said, Michele, I’m struggling with all of my referral pieces, I would, without blinking, go, oh my gosh, well, you need to know Stacey. Let me introduce you.

But you know, on the day-to-day, when you’re going through it, I’m not thinking, oh, let me go refer Stacey. Let me go refer Stacey. Any more than anybody’s thinking the same about me. We’re busy, right?

But I know that when I’ve worked with people that made it easy for me to refer them, meaning they gave me, and this may not be what you’re talking about, but even just giving me a couple of extra business card.

Just, you know, back in the day when we use business cards, giving me something, and I’m not talking about something for my own personal gain. I’m talking about a tool or a handout, something, or just made it easy. Like, you know, I would love to work with them.

Here’s where you say, just even telling me where to tell them to go and how to contact them. Just because some people want texts, some want emails, some want to go through a forum on their website.

Just giving me information so that I know the proper way to connect, that changes my referrals. Because otherwise I’m like, well, I’d like to refer you, but I know they don’t like to answer the phone, and they really get really irritated with texts.

I’m not really sure how to, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, tell me how to help you. And I think that’s one of those seeds that we plant.

Stacey Brown Randall: You know, it’s really interesting. I would actually say your sense of make it easy on me to be able to refer you, put you actually in the minority. And I think that is because you

Michele Williams: Well, I am a unicorn, you do know that.

Stacey Brown Randall: That’s what I mean. Like, and this makes you even more of a unicorn, right?

Michele Williams: Oh, great. I’ll tell my husband. He’ll be so excited.

Stacey Brown Randall: Like let’s just keep making Michele more unicorns. But I think it’s important to recognize why you think like that. Because people do think like that out there in the world. The unfortunate reality is they’re in the minority.

Most people are just like, whatever is easiest for me to refer you, that’s what I’m going to do. And so a lot of times it’s like, if someone ever says, how can I refer you? I’m like, just, is email easy? Yeah, then just email me and copy the other person on the email, right?

Like I know how to use that language in those moments to make it really easy for me to be able to follow up with people. But lots of people, you know, when you think about like making it easy on them to refer, it’s usually what is easiest for them.

The fact that you think about it from the other person’s perspective, that’s what puts you in the minority. Because you’re right, nobody wakes up and says, how can I help Stacey grow her business today?

I mean, nobody wakes up and says that about me. They don’t say that about you. They don’t say that about anybody. We wake up thinking, how am I going to grow my business today?

And so it’s that mentality of just kind of how we think about things, which is obviously why I think that puts you in the minority.

But I do think business owners who are cognizant of referrals in their world are more cognizant of doing the referrals for others as well.

Michele Williams: Exactly.

Stacey Brown Randall: And so I think that’s what makes it a little bit different.

Michele Williams: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I know how important referrals are for me, for my business.

I do coaching for, you know, large firms that have million, five million running through their company. And so they want to be super careful.

And many of them have worked with a lot of other people or, you know, they just want to make certain that they’re at a pivot point or they’re at a growth point, an acceleration point. And time is of the essence. And they want to make sure they’re getting the right person at the right place at the right time.

And so when they’ve got that transfer of trust from somebody else, it makes that process quicker. And we can even quickly decide, are we meant to work together or are we not? We’re not starting from cold, hard ground. Right? And so it is, it really is a big deal.

And because I know what that’s like to have a conversation with somebody who’s already been warmed up to that conversation, I want to help warm up other people.

And I want to say this too, Stacey, just because you and I have done this for each other as well. It’s not even always about getting a client. It’s about referring people that can help you in some way.

I know I was looking for a resource recently and reached out and just asked you, hey, do you happen to have a resource in this particular area? And you’re like, you know, I really think I do. Let me, and I told you kind of here’s what I’m looking for.

You’re like, let me go find out, you know, from her if that’s really what she does. And then if so, I’ll connect you.

And then you did, and you connected us and now, you know, we’re planning a few things together.

But it was never about a client. It was about a need that I had to support my clients, right? And you were able to do that for me.

So I think we don’t need to lose sight of referral as always meaning direct income from a client. It really could just be somebody else that could offer something that could enrich or enhance our business or our life in some way.

Stacey Brown Randall: It’s so true. And you know, it’s interesting when I’m working with the clients that are going through my Growth By Referrals program, they’ll have that same question. They’ll be like, hey, this person hasn’t referred me a paying client per se, but they’ve referred me people who have become my referral sources just by connecting me from a greater networking perspective.

I’m like, that’s just as valuable. We can’t always assign the dollar amounts as easy as trackable maybe sometimes as we want to. But somebody connecting you with somebody who will become a huge referral source for you.

Like when I look at it when I’m working with my VIPs and we’re looking at the web, we call it like the spider’s web of the referrals and where they kind of go and come from and hey, this person referred me to this person. Now this person’s referred me to six people.

And of those six people, that person referred me to four more people. And it all goes back to that initial person who actually never referred you a paying client but referred you people who could.

And so I tell my students, track it all. Track when you get referred a client, of course. And then obviously I want you to track the outcome of that as well. I want you to take care of your referral source regardless of who they refer you becomes a client or not.

But I do want you to track the outcome. I also want you to track when are they referring you to somebody else and in terms of that person can then refer you and so from that perspective, like if using that scenario of like you reached out to me and said hey do you know somebody and I was like yeah, I do, right?

From her perspective, we’ll call her Sarah, so it doesn’t get confusing with the names, but like from her perspective, Sarah would be thinking about it as Stacey referred me to Michele, right?

And so that is the way that she would be looking at it from that perspective, but I didn’t refer to Michele to do business, but the potential to be a resource for Michele and who knows where that will take the relationship.

Michele Williams: Exactly. You know, so as we wrap this up, I think there’s one other little piece that I know we talked about before, but I do think that it bears repeating in this is when somebody asked you, you know, Michele or Stacey or fill in the blank with your name. Who would be a good referral for you?

I think we need to make sure that we can easily articulate who our ideal client is or the ideal business or need that we have. And so the more nebulous we are, the more, kind of shot in the dark it’s going to be.

But the more clear that we can be on this is a perfect type of client, or this is the type of needs that my clients have, or this is the need that I have to fill in my business, then I think we’re going to have better referral outcomes.

I know that sometimes when people will go, I need more business. Okay, well, what do you need? And they can’t tell me. I’m like, well, I don’t even know how to help you. I mean, I know it sounds like crazy, but it’s true.

Again, I think that goes back to that, I’m willing to help you, but you’ve got to tell me how. So we need to take the time to sit and think about what do we want? Who do we want to work with? What needs do we have or what needs could we offer somebody else?

If somebody were saying, how do I refer you? Well, here’s what I do. Kind of looking at ourself on both sides of the referral.

And I am just kind of amazed sometimes that we don’t give that the thought and the attention that it really needs to be served well.

Because then sometimes we’re complaining, look who these people are sending me, yet we’ve never sat down and told them who to send us.

Stacey Brown Randall: You know, it is really fascinating. And I always tell folks, like, I don’t ever want you, the way I’m gonna teach you is I’m never gonna teach you to go up to somebody and be like, hey, I need business, so send me some people, right?

Like, I am never gonna teach you that. But if someone like Michele is having a conversation with you and says, how can I help you? Oh my gosh, I want you to be ready to take advantage of that opportunity.

So if I say to you, how can I help you? Or Michele, you say to somebody, how can I help you? You’re absolutely right. I want them to be able to say, Oh my gosh, really? Thank you so much. I mean, I first want them like, do they mean it.

Michele Williams: Acknowledge it. Yes.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. Sometimes people say, let me know how I can help you as they’re like walking out the door because they don’t mean it. And I want you to be able to discern when somebody means it or when they’re just saying it to be polite and pleasantries.

But if someone says, hey, Stacey, like, tell me, how can I help you?

Michele Williams: Or what do you really need Stacey? Tell me. Right? That kind of thing.

Stacey Brown Randall: Right. Like, I want to be ready to answer it, and you need to be ready to answer it. Like we all need to be ready to answer it so it’s important.

And let’s be honest, how we answer that question also has a lot to do with how well we know you. Right? So, I mean, the truth is there are a few target industries where my program works wonders, and I focus on those industries on purpose.

But having a conversation with you, I could certainly tell you that attorneys do great in my program so if you ever know any of attorneys. But that’s not as relevant as being like well, you know who else is kicking butt in my program interior designers.

It’s like that’s more relevant to you to how you would even be thinking about me down the road or keeping me top of mind in that perspective.

So I want you to be ready to answer the question when the person asks it. What I don’t want you to do is force it upon them when they haven’t even shown any interest because that’s how we damage relationships.

Michele Williams: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, well, I don’t like that either. When someone says, here’s what I need, and this is what I need you to go get for me.

But I do think that when the question is asked, we need to know. I mean, I’ll give you just a real prime example on the financial side.

When I’m working with a new client and I say to them, I might hear this, the business is growing. Okay, great. I want the business to continue to grow and scale. Okay, awesome. That’s what I specialize in.

Okay, and I’ll ask them, so tell me, what are the lifestyle needs that the business needs to support? Crickets. What kind of salary do you need to make? Crickets. And I’m like, okay, if any of us were to go work in corporate, we would have an idea.

So is it that you don’t know because you haven’t thought about it or because you don’t know what’s possible? So let’s say all things are possible. Now tell me what you want.

Because we can’t build what nobody knows and can’t recognize, right? We gotta have a starting place.

And so I think the same thing is true with referrals. I can remember at one time somebody asking me, So, Michele, what is an ideal client for you so that if I run across somebody or know somebody, I can connect you?

And the first time they asked me that, I kind of gulped and I thought, you know, I don’t know that I have ever thought about how to succinctly answer that. Now, I certainly can.

But at the time I couldn’t just like some people can’t tell me what salary they want. So I get it. I’ve been there.

I’m just saying it certainly makes it easier for somebody else to go. Oh my gosh lawyers. I know lawyers I got lawyers in my family, or my neighbor is a lawyer or interior designers. I know interior designers I can send some your way if you know if I see that that they would be a good fit for you.

So it is, it’s being able to just articulate it when you’re, like you said, truly asked. Again, none of this is running up and foisting this on anybody. We’re not beating anybody over the head to be a referral partner.

This is because somebody’s asking to, wanting to, there’s a synergy. But I think we enhance that synergy when we give them the tools to help us.

Stacey Brown Randall: Absolutely. And in some cases, it really is looking at it from the perspective, like, hey, someone’s actually offering, let’s make sure we’re ready and prepared to take advantage of their offer.

And in other cases, it’s the, you’ve never offered, but I really want referrals from you. So I’m going to do what I need to do to nurture a relationship with you and know the language to plant, so that I can get you to start thinking about me from a referral perspective.

So I can get that first referral from you and you thinking it was your idea, right? And then of course, moving you on over where I can take care of you to get more referrals from you in the future. I want you to be able to do both.

Michele Williams: I love it. I love it. So Stacey, tell us where you’re hanging out online these days and tell us a little bit about your Growth By Referrals program.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes. So, I mean, everywhere you probably look online, just full name. I’m gonna make it as many letters as possible for you to type when you’re looking me up online with Stacey Brown Randall, and Stacey has an E, but that’s the website. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, all the places as well.

But you know, what I really always tell folks is that when you’re thinking through your referral strategy and what you want it to look like for you, I have so many free resources out there with my book, with my podcast.

I have this referral ninja quiz you can take to figure out where you’re starting from, but ultimately where I want you to be able to land and where I want you to be able to do and to know how to do it is what I teach in my Growth By Referrals program.

And that is the ability for you to know how to identify my referral sources. Then what do I do for my existing referral sources to take care of them.

Then once I have that plan and language and peace in place, then we’re going to teach you, still inside the Growth By Referrals program, same program, we’re going to then teach you, you’re going to go through another training that’s going to say, okay, now let’s identify those potentials and let’s get them to really start referring you too.

And that’s what the Growth By Referrals program is built to do. It’s built to help you understand here’s who your referral sources are, here’s how you need to take care of them and what to say, here’s who you want to refer you, here’s how you identify them, and here’s what you do to get that first referral.

And at the same time, we can talk about how do you follow up after a referral is received, and how do you change the quality when you’re not getting the quality. What’s the language you use when you’re talking to that referred prospect and you want them to close into a yes client? There’s all those pieces.

Now, I will say inside my Growth By Referrals program, some of those other layers, one and two locked and loaded, layer one and two locked and loaded, in the Growth By Referrals program.

But some of the other things we talked about, layers three, four, five, and six, they actually come through other areas, or you just don’t need them until the next level training that you would need above and beyond Growth By Referrals, because that’s where you’ve got to start. So some of it’s in there, but not all of it.

Michele Williams: Okay, great. Well, I will have all of that in the show notes. And so I’m just really thankful for the conversation today. You know, I learned something every single time.

Even just that tiny little nuance, that tiny little thing that I can start to add in to be like, okay, I need to think about that more, or I need to be intentional about this piece or that wording or whatever.

So I really appreciate the conversation and going deeper into those six layers. So thank you, Stacey.

Stacey Brown Randall: Oh my gosh, it’s my pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

Michele Williams: Alright. Well, I will tell you goodbye and tell everybody to go back to and listen to if you want, episode 27, Referrals Without Asking for a Full Pipeline.

And Stacey, what is the name of your podcast?

Stacey Brown Randall: Roadmap to Grow Your Business.

Michele Williams: Roadmap to Grow Your Business. So it’s really action-packed. They’re quick episodes. And so I would highly recommend that everybody listen to that.

And again, we’ll link your podcast in my podcast, in the show notes so that everybody can get to it. And just thank you so much for sharing today. Thank you.

Michele Williams: Thanks for joining me for my podcast takeover on the Roadmap to Referrals podcast. I hope you’ll visit my podcast, Profit is a Choice, and connect with me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook.

All of the links to connect with me can be found in the show notes below, and I look forward to seeing you again sometimes. Now, back to Stacey.

Stacey Brown Randall: I hope you enjoyed this episode. I actually pulled this one back from the vault.

I was actually on Michele’s podcast a couple of years ago when I used to talk about the referrals and the referral strategy that your business needs, really needs to have layers to it. We refer to those as our six layers, which you heard Michele and I go through.

That was a number of years ago. I’ve kind of evolved in how I talk about your referrals in your business, and I talk about them as an ecosystem. The labeling’s changed. Layers, ecosystem, the labeling’s changed. The content, still the same.

Those two layers are what exist inside your referral ecosystem. So please make sure that you show some love to our podcast host, to Michele, by checking out her podcast, Profit is a choice.

And of course, more information on her business and how to connect with her on social media, find out more about what she does and how she works with her clients, and of course, subscribe and listen to her podcast, can be found on the show notes page for this episode.

And the show notes page for this episode is StaceyBrownRandall.com/368. So that’s Stacey with an E, and of course, the episode number is 3-6-8, 368.

Okay, we are back with another great episode next week created with you and your needs in mind. Until then, you know what to do, my friend. Take control of your referrals and build a referable business. Bye for now.