Ep #373: Founder-Led Companies Need a Referral Strategy

Stacey Brown Randall: Hey there, and welcome to the Roadmap to Referrals podcast, a show that proves you can generate referrals without asking or manipulation.

I’m your host, Stacey Brown Randall. I’m a card-carrying member of the Business Failure Club, have taught my referrals without asking methodology and strategy to clients in more than 14 countries around the world. And my mission is to help you unleash a referral explosion by leveraging the science of referrals and respecting your relationships.

Well, we have arrived where we have reached the final podcast takeover episode. This is the last one that we’re doing for our podcast takeover, and we are going out with a bang.

Today, we welcome Raul Hernandez of the Do Good Work podcast to interview me, which he did on his podcast, about why founder-led companies need a referral strategy.

So I don’t want to ruin it and I don’t want to spill the beans on the why and everything that we talk about. So I’m going to save that. I don’t want to spill the beans before, should I say spill the tea, before the interview.

So let me hand it over to Raul so you can understand all the different pieces we dove into if you’re a founder-led company about why having a referral strategy is so very important. And of course, you’re going to learn more about Raul and his podcast as well, Do Good Work.

I mean, isn’t that the best name for a podcast and the best name for a company? That’s what he helps other companies do. So let’s get to the interview with Raul.

Raul Hernandez: Hey, this is Raul Hernandez from the Do Good Work podcast. I’m doing a podcast takeover of the Roadmap to Referrals podcast this week in this episode where I interviewed Stacey over on my podcast.

And Stacey’s always been super generous, either doing private trainings for my group as well as here on the pod. Would love for you to listen to it, and I’m excited for you to learn from Stacey.

Raul Hernandez: Awesome. Well, Stacey, thank you so much for being on.

Stacey Brown Randall: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Raul Hernandez: I’m really excited for today’s topic simply because you’re kind of taking the inverted of how to get referrals without actually asking for them, which seems like, how can you possibly do that? So I’d like for you to like break our mindsets, our limiting beliefs, and it’s like, how is this possible?

Stacey Brown Randall: You know, it’s really interesting about why people believe you’re supposed to ask for referrals. It isn’t because they’ve actually done it themselves and realized, oh my gosh, it works incredibly well. This is why I should be asking.

It’s because it’s what we’ve been told for decades and decades and decades. And the majority of people, not everyone, but the majority of people are like, okay, they tell me I have to ask, or they tell me I have to pay a commission or a kickback, or they tell me I have to be really overly promotional and gimmicky.

All right, so let me try it. And then you’re like, nope, that didn’t work for me. And then you’re left with thinking that referral will only come because you ask for them. And then you realize, well, I don’t want to.

So what does that leave you with? And that’s the hope strategy. Well, I just hope some will show up. I just hope I get some. And if I do, that’s great.

And I have found that if you truly understand the how and why behind referrals, the human dynamic and the psychology behind why they happen, you’ll realize that that old school kind of advice that you’ve been hearing for decades and decades doesn’t really work.

So it’s so funny to me because most people are like, I don’t want to ask, but then they don’t know what else to do. So they do. They just leave it up to hope that, well, I’ll get some and it’ll be great, but it won’t be something that I actually build a strategy around.

And so it’s always fun to see the light bulb go off when someone realizes, wait, I can get these referrals, and I don’t have to do the stuff that makes me uncomfortable.

Raul Hernandez: Yeah, I really love that. Cause you’re nailing it on the head. Cause I know that I’ve been told every 40 days, ask your referral partners for a referral. And then looking at when you’re asking for referrals or setting up referral partnerships is what is in it for them.

And typically, what’s all like in it for them, the easiest, okay, they get a X percentage of the end outcome, or they get a nice little, little, like you mentioned, kickback, but let’s talk about that strategy though.

So you’re, you’re hitting more like the psychological benefits that happen when you’re actually giving referrals and getting referrals, but can we dive into that and why referrals, why you don’t need to do all these things to get referrals.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, so I think that if you, okay, let’s unpack where that advice kind of comes from, because then I think it’s really easy for us to understand how we should be doing it differently.

So if you think about how we’ve been taught to set up our sales strategy, like how people have been teaching the concept of sales strategy for decades, it’s that it’s a two-part plan, right? You’ve got to have your prospecting and you’ve got to have your marketing.

And prospecting and marketing are good, right? I got no issues with those. You definitely should have prospecting and marketing.

If you think about prospecting, it’s a short-term mentality. Its activity is like cold calling, cold emailing, networking, 7 million cups of coffee, right? There’s different things in different industries that you would do. That’s kind of more of that pounding the pavement type activities that you would do that would be considered prospecting.

And the end user of all that activity is you’re trying to get in front of the prospect. You’re making those 40 phone calls to cold leads to see if one person will answer the phone and have a conversation with you or sending out those cold emails or meeting with people for the first time, you know, for cups of coffee or meeting people at a networking event.

You’re hoping that the person you talk to will be a potential prospect. So the end user of all the prospecting activity is the prospect.

On the marketing side, it’s a little bit longer term mentality, but it’s the same type of activities that we may do. It’s the website, it’s the social media posts, it’s the advertising, whether that’s traditional or online, it’s earned media, PR, right? It’s all the different things that you can do that build that brand reputation, that name recognition.

But what we’re ultimately doing at the end of the day for our marketing, the end user of our marketing messaging is also the prospect.

And so if I think about sales, as a two-legged stool. There is prospecting and marketing. And then I try to fit referrals into either of those two sides. Well, then it makes sense that the advice that would be produced, which has actually been sold and packaged and now taught for decades, right?

Is that, well, if I think about referrals and they fit within prospecting, short-term mentality, how do I get you as fast to the prospect as possible? Oh, well, you just, it must be asking. It must be asking, or it must be paying for them.

That’s where the asking and paying for advice comes from. It’s thinking referrals fit within a prospecting mentality.

If I look at marketing and I think referrals fit in marketing, well, then it’s a little longer-term mentality, but I’m just going to teach you to be more promotional, more gimmicky, and in some cases, downright cheesy.

It’s things like putting an email signature line, I’m never too busy for your referrals, or oh by the way, I’m never too busy for your referrals, or your referrals are the greatest compliment that you can give me.

Putting it in your social media posts, putting it in your email signature, putting it in your e-newsletters, or doing things that are like, in the real estate industry I see this more than others, but it’s like sending a bag of goldfish with a sign that says I’m fishing for your referrals.

It’s doing things, if I think referrals fit within marketing, then I’m going to end up doing things and the tactics and strategies that I would be taught would be to be promotional and gimmicky.

And so that’s if we think that referrals fit within prospecting and marketing, that’s where those tactics, that methodology, that philosophy comes from.

The truth is your sales strategy is not a two-legged stool. It’s a three-legged stool and referrals has its own leg. And you should pull referrals away from prospecting and away from marketing.

And the minute you can see your referral strategy as separate from prospecting and separate from marketing, then you understand, okay, wait, everything then about my referrals and my referral strategy is different.

And the biggest difference between your referrals, your referral plan, and your prospecting or your marketing plan is who’s the end user.

So like we said in prospecting and marketing, the end user is the prospect. I make those cold calls to hope the prospect will answer the phone. I do that social media post to hope that someone will see it and click on it and then want to have a conversation.

In referrals, the end user isn’t the prospect. Because with referrals, we don’t know who the prospect is. Who do we know? Well, we know the referral source.

And so the end user of everything we do with our referrals plan is actually for the referral source. And it is about strengthening and deepening their relationship with them.

It’s about using the right language. So from a referral perspective, we call them referral seeds, but understanding that we’re trying to impact how they feel about us in terms of how I want them to feel about me is I want them to feel that they know I’m thankful and I’m grateful and I’m appreciative of the referrals they do send me and that I don’t take that lightly.

And it isn’t something I just expect for them. And so it is about taking the relationship with our referral sources and looking at they’re the hero. So let’s treat them like they are.

Versus the mentality that says, hey, every 40 days, you need to be asking your referral sources for referrals. That’s making it about me. That’s making that relationship about how does it serve me.

But in reality, if I just take care of my referral sources, then I can actually be able to position how they think about me. So if I can impact how they feel about me by how I take care of them and let them know I’m thankful for their referrals, I can then direct how they think about me.

And that means I can use the right language to get more referrals. Because the truth is referrals happen when I remember you, right? Referrals happen when I’m in front of a situation where somebody who has a legitimate need that you can solve, and I think to connect them with you.

And so if we’re taking care of our referral sources, not like, hey, it’s been 62 days, let me send you a text message, but let me really impact how, you know, that I feel about you and how you feel about me. And I can do that throughout the course of a year.

And then do it next year. And the next year and the next year, and it becomes a plan, it becomes a strategy, it becomes a process within our business for how we cultivate referrals, but it’s a very targeted strategic process.

Raul Hernandez: I love that, and shots fired on some of the gimmicks and the tactics that you mentioned, especially with the emails.

But I really like, I took your quiz. I took your quiz earlier and I liked that you asked that question. I thought it was a trick question. Who is the end user? Who is the end outcome? When your referral strategy, like, oh, is it the referral partner? Is it, it’s not the prospect. So that’s really good to be able to look at that.

So now we’re positioning ourselves as, as trusted advisors, because obviously we have to, if they send us referrals, we have to deliver the results. We have to make sure that whoever they send our way gives them good brand reputation.

But this is more of a longer-term strategy. What are some of the facets of that strategy that we should be thinking about? Because this is not just a, hey, I’m going to select five people and be nice to them. It’s, it’s a, it’s a very long-term thinking. I’m thinking three to five years minimum within this kind of strategy.

Stacey Brown Randall: Well, so here’s the thing. I think this is a strategy that you can build within a half a day. If you have the right roadmap and you know exactly what you’re doing and exactly what the strategy is supposed to look like, you can build it quickly and you can start implementing it.

And of course, I want you to have success implementing what I teach quickly. But to your point, I want this to be a way that you build sustainability in your business.

So while it’s great, right, I think I’m thinking about a specific student in my Growth by Referrals program who is an attorney, she had six referrals a year that came from one referral source.

So she learned how to create more referral sources, so how to get more people to refer her, and then to get more referrals from them. And so she went from six referrals in a year to ending that first year with 12, and then getting 27 the next year, and then getting 33 the year after that.

And then now in her sixth year, last year, she got 47 referrals. And she only needs about 12 to 15 which I think it’s a great position to be in because talk about being picky with the type of clients that she would take.

But she’s getting, she’s in her seventh year of following this process. Like, hey, I’ve got my referral plan, and I do it every year. And I’ve got my referral sources, and I know how to create new ones, right?

When some referral sources, they don’t stay on your list forever, right? I mean, it is not a static list, it is a fluid list. And so she knows how to build referral sources. It’s a sustainable part of how she grows her business.

And I think that’s the piece that people miss. So yes, I want the sustainability to be there for you three, five, 10 years from now. I also know everybody else thinks it’s really important to have that short-term success and get that ROI as quickly as possible.

And I want both. I’m actually more interested in the long-term success, right? I’m more interested in you being like seven years in, here I go. I know exactly what this looks like. I want you to have great success in the beginning too because I know that motivates you to keep going.

But when I think about what all of my Growth by Referrals, business owner clients, like what they all have in common is a couple of things. Number one is they really do great work. Like nobody refers crappy work or a choppy client experience.

I was talking with one of my new VIP clients who just came into the program and she was like, so I read your book and I read that section about the choppy client experience and the crappy kind of experience that you may be giving to people and she was like and I was nodding my head and like didn’t want to that oh my gosh that’s me.

So it’s not that you’re not capable of great work but you’ve got to have the processes and the systems behind to do great work. We call that a sticky client experience because to be referable, I mean, that’s such a key point of generating referrals, of getting referrals, right? It’s like, you’ve got to be referable.

And it’s funny because I talk about it like it’s understood. And I sometimes have to remind myself, oh, wait, let me just back up and give the disclaimer. One of the first big things I want you to considering is, are you referable?

And if you’ve received referrals in the past, that is a great indicator that you can receive more in the future. And then the second thing I would tell people is you need to know who are your referral sources.

If we are looking at our sales strategy as a three-legged stool, and we’ve pulled referrals out of prospecting and marketing, and we’ve created a third leg to our stool, the referral plan, and the end user of that referral plan are our existing referral sources, well, we better know who they are.

And not anecdotal evidence, not what you think you can remember from the last six months, but I want you to dig in and figure out where your clients have come from over the last three to four years, if you’ve been in business that long

If you’ve been in business less, go with what you have, but go in there and figure out, okay, who’s been referring me over the last couple of years. That gives you a base to start with.

Then the next big thing of course right so one be referable. Two, know exactly who your referral sources are.

And three, then you need to create that referral plan where you’re going to take care of them, you’re going to be memorable and meaningful, you’re going to do the right number of touch points or outreaches.

You’re going to use the right language, and you’re going to create this to be a system so that just like you open up your inbox every morning and check email, when it comes time to do a touchpoint or outreach on your referral plan, that’s happening as well, right?

It’s just like, hey, if you are paying your taxes every year, right, and you are reconciling your books every month for your business, you should also be executing on your referral plan.

So it’s be referable, be worthy of those referrals, right? Make sure you know who are your referral sources are and if you need more, right? Cause there’s definitely a process to turn people into referral sources and then have a plan in place to actually take care of those referral sources.

And that would be the three big like overarching facets of a high level of when you’re thinking about, hey, I wanna generate more referrals for my business. That’s like the overarching like three big places I tell folks, well, this is where we need to start from.

Raul Hernandez: That makes a lot of sense. And I was actually writing notes, psychological strand, like maybe this is how the strategy should be. And you outlined it even better.

But that’s again, step zero being, be referable. And of course, this podcast is called Do Good Work, not do average or mediocre work. It’s like it’s do good work, legit work that actually receives and creates an impact.

So I don’t doubt it in my mind, if you’re listening to this is making sure that we need to make sure how can we make our experience better for our customers or clients?

How can we make sure that we it have delight touch points and making sure that we exceed expectations and plan for that because that’s going to again kind of go into the like the memorable and what is it the double M, memorable and

Stacey Brown Randall: Memorable and meaningful. We call it minding our M&Ms.

Raul Hernandez: I like it. That’s really smart because it’s not just one way, it’s all about relationship. So you’ve worked with a lot of people in regards to the referrals, why that happened. What’s some of the psychology that matters when we’re actually standing out and being meaningful in someone else’s life that we’re top of mind?

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, you know what’s really interesting is I always tell folks is that your job and your expectation is to impact how your referral source feels about you, which really means that ultimately fundamentally that’s what we’re after we’re after how they feel about you.

And so your responsibility isn’t necessarily to wonder if they’re going to give you referrals and obviously, we’re going to track the referrals that we do receive and there’s metrics involved in there are, you know, obviously, points that we want to hit in this process.

But your ultimate underlying like objective and responsibility here is that for your referral sources to know that you care about them.

And for them to know that you care about them, because you care about them, and because you’re also thankful for the referrals that they bring to your business, and that you don’t take that lightly, and that that is important to you, and you recognize they could refer to someone else.

I mean, think about it. In some of our industries, we are a dime a dozen. I mean, if you’re a financial advisor, there are probably hundreds, depending on the size of your town, to thousands of you.

Same with real estate agents, same with attorneys, same with CPAs. Like, oh my gosh, there’s not one, right? And so if you think about who they could be referring to, they’re choosing to refer to you. And that is really precious. And it’s really important.

And so it’s paying attention to understanding that they’re putting their reputation on the line every time they refer to you. And they refer to you, not because they love you and like you, that’s important.

They also do trust the fact that you will solve the problem of the person they’re sending to you. And so that’s important too, but it really is maintaining that relationship with your referral source and taking care of them.

Now, are there other facets that I think are important so that we can also generate referrals from that? Absolutely. But there’s a foundational piece there where our goal is to honor and respect and protect the relationship that we have with our referral source.

And I feel like the asking or the paying for or the promotional and gimmicky strategies are actually exploiting that relationship and they’re taking it for granted.

And I think that when somebody puts their reputation on the line and send you a client, that that needs to be guarded. And that needs to be protected, because it’s something they could easily give to somebody else and not to you.

And so I think that’s just a mentality shift that I find with people when they come into my program, I’m always like, okay, first, in some cases, they’re like, this is awesome. I’ve asked and it’s terrible. I never want to do it. I want to do it your way, Stacey. And they just sail through the program.

But other people come in and we have to dismantle this decades of thought processes they’ve had around how they’re supposed to treat their referral sources.

And I always just say, I was like, it’s like a member of the family you actually like. I’m sure we have members of the families we don’t really like, but the members of the family that you really like, like you want to protect it. So that’s how I want you to view your referral sources.

And for some people, that is a massive mindset shift. Like that is ultimately how they’re built and how they’re wired. It’s just not how they’ve been taught or trained. And so we got to unpack some of the damage done so they can really look at their referral sources in the right way.

Raul Hernandez: Yeah. It’s really trusting the process. Cause that’s like, I still have a one like big arching question around this is because you mentioned that if you do the gimmicky stuff, you’re pretty much telling that person or your referral source, like, hey, I think about you in this format.

And that is a negative reflection of your brand, which I think is really bad. But it’s also, if you give kickbacks, like, oh, that referral is only worth $200 to you, maybe I won’t refer someone in the future.

But then I’m curious, when it comes to like giving back to that referral source is there’s more than one way than to say, Thank you. There’s the thank you cards, there’s getting them on a podcast, there’s making them feel like a hero, as opposed to just giving them a monetary gift.

And which is what you’re kind of suggesting here saying, don’t pay for this, create a real relationship because the real relationships in your life you’re not paying for. Is that correct?

Stacey Brown Randall: Absolutely. I mean, I think about those moments when you are faced with a decision of how to take care of your referral sources. It’s usually not the way we think, right?

Usually people are like, how much money am I supposed to spend? I’m like, ah, this isn’t like the, I gotta give them referrals, right? When they give me referrals, I gotta give them referrals.

Or when I get a referral, I gotta respond in kind with some type of gift that seems to capture the value that I feel about that referral that they just gave to me. It’s not about that.

Ultimately at the end of the day, the referral isn’t about you to begin with. We think they are because we get a new client and that’s awesome. But that’s actually not what the referral is about.

The referral is about your referral source getting to feel like a hero because they’re helping someone. Somebody said, hey, I need help with referrals, oh my gosh, you gotta talk to Stacey. She’ll make all your problems go away, right? I mean, I hope that’s what my referral sources say.

The idea here is it’s that idea that as a referral source, whereas my referral sources are my heroes, in reality, when they’re thinking about what they’re doing, it’s being a hero to the prospect, to the person who has a problem and they wanna help them.

And how they’re gonna help them is by connecting them to you and you’re gonna solve their problem. So it’s making sure we come at it from that perspective and that we don’t downplay that importance.

And that we also don’t try to like be gimmicky in terms of like trying to put a price tag on that either. And like you said, there are lots of ways to thank and show gratitude and importance to our referral sources. It’s not always monetary.

Like I have people who always ask me, they’re like, I mean, I don’t have a big budget. I can’t be buying people $50, $100 gifts every time they give me a referral. Like I can’t spend thousands and thousands of dollars to take care of my referral sources.

And I’m like, sometimes we overlook the fact that the simple thank you or the time spent  and then helping them with something they need is actually one of the most powerful things we can do for our referral source.

And that is overlooked a lot. I mean, we talk about with my clients, I talk a lot about the different vehicles or the different delivery mechanisms of how you can take care of your referral sources. And there isn’t one way. It isn’t just monetary, right? There are other ways that you could do it.

And the other thing to do is always make sure what you’re doing has that surprise and delight factor, right? Because at that point, that’s where it feels real versus the, hey, if you refer me, I’m going to send you a Starbucks gift card.

I mean, that’s like that compensation piece. Right? And it’s interesting. You brought up the whole idea of like, the whole concept of paying somebody for a referral, like, oh, that referral is only worth two hundred dollars. I think that’s the example you used. Oh, I gave you that referral, it was only worth two hundred dollars.

I like to go a step further and really dig in the psychology of that and say, what if that client found out that they got referred to you because you paid somebody $200 to refer them.

So at that moment, they thought they were being referred to you because you were the best person to solve their problem. When in fact, that person was just making money off of their pain by referring them to you because you paid the commission.

So like I like to even dig in deeper to all these facets to be like, okay, what happens psychologically when we ask our referral sources?

What happens psychologically when our clients found out that, hey, maybe I was only referred to you because you pay the biggest commission, but you’re not the right person to solve my problem.

Like all those things, they damage that relationship with our referral source. The same way as like feeling like you got to buy them a gift every time they refer you, that’s going to cheapen their relationship with your referral source really fast too.

There’s a nuance to it. There is a cadence to how we take care of our referral sources. And sometimes it doesn’t mean you need to spend a dime. And other times it means that maybe you just want to show up and surprise and delight in a different way.

But there is a framework to how I teach it and there’s a cadence to how it works. And I think that’s when people understand, oh, I’m not just sending a thank you card every time you refer me. I mean, you should, but you should also have a plan in place to take care of these people all throughout the year.

But you’re not doing something daily, weekly, or monthly. I tell most folks, I was like, a referral plan will typically have between four and eight touch points in a year. Most in their first couple of years are gonna fall between six and eight.

But some of us who’ve been doing this for a long time, we can get away with four because of what we’re doing and how long we’ve been nurturing these relationships.

And here’s the thing. And if I haven’t said this enough, let me just say it very, very clearly again. At the end of the day, no matter what we do, no matter what we say, if it doesn’t come from a place of genuine care, it doesn’t matter.

Yes, I have a referral plan, and I do about four or five touch points every year to my referral sources, but even if I didn’t do them, doing those allows me to always make sure that I stay top of mind with them and I’m memorable and meaningful.

But even if I didn’t do them, my referral sources know that they matter so much to me and that we have a real relationship that has developed over time. And so do I think that you can just have great relationships and get referrals? No, not necessarily. I think there’s a strategy behind it.

But once you do that strategy for so many years, I’ve been doing this eight years now, when you do that strategy for so many years, it’s a snowball effect. And at the end of the day, my referral sources know no matter what, they are invaluable to me and that I care about them.

And they can ask me for anything. And the answer is usually yes, even if I don’t want to do it. The answer is usually yes, because if they need me, I want to be there. And there’s a relationship there that builds.

Raul Hernandez: That trust. That’s really interesting because going back to my marketing background and psychology, everyone’s status, especially in the B2B space, wants to be elevated. They want to feel better about themselves.

And like you just mentioned as well, some of the things that I train or teach clients is that every single team member or every single person wants to know that their work matters, that their voice is heard, and they have a place to grow.

But in this case, they matter, their voice is heard, and the work that they’re doing makes a difference. And that’s really important to keep in mind is that, again, we’re in the business of people, and that we should never really forget that.

So if I’m looking at the referral plan, if I’m trying to craft one myself, I have to make sure that I am referable, just making sure that, hey, I got my my I’s dotted, my T’s crossed.

Show that I care, but really true, genuine care. And that’s for my own way to figure out with my referral sources, manage my M&M’s, which I thought was a pretty cool and clever way of saying that.

And then having touch points. And I’m really glad that you kind of identified, it doesn’t have to be a touch point every single month or every other week and kind of being overbearing. It just has to be consistent enough.

Because this is a, again, you’re talking eight years now doing this, but this is a, anyone listening to this, this is a, 15-year plan, just think about it that way. For the next 15 years, you’re trying to grow this to be to the level where you’re creating that compounding effect.

And then always figuring out what language I could use to delight and surprise my referral partners.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. And I think when you’re thinking about it from that perspective, it’s like my referral plan is the cadence and the rhythm of how I’m going to stay top of mind, which is how often I’m going to do it.

What I’m going to do, which is to be memorable and meaningful. Like we said, my managing or minding your M&Ms.

And then, of course, on the other side of that is making sure you’re using the right language, and it’s language that has to, it’s got to work, right? It’s not this forceful uncomfortable language and stuff that allows us to plant referral seeds.

And it really is, at the end of the day, it comes down to a process. It is just a process you run within your business once you’ve defined it and once you’ve looked at it.

And lots of people come to me, they’re like, okay, what should my touch points be like? What should I be doing? And I always say, and I love that you already hit on it. I always say, that’s a great question. It’s just not the right first question.

The right first question is actually, who are you going to be doing this plan for? So who are your referral sources? And like you said, like, once you kind of know who your referral sources are, you can kind of figure it out probably how best you want to take care of them.

Of course, in my book, I give a number of examples that people can just kind of use as a baseline. And of course, we go in deeper to it in my program in terms of what exactly this looks like, what have other students done that had success and what language do I specifically recommend from a scripts perspective.

But ultimately, if you’re a business owner and you actually are not dead inside, and you have a heart and you care about people, this is not a complicated thing to figure out.

There’s a framework I want you to follow to do it well and to do it right. But ultimately, even if it’s not as pretty as the way I would put it together for you, it is your ability to take care of your referral sources and that should be your ultimate goal.

Raul Hernandez: And I’m definitely going to link out to that book because as everyone knows that leaders are readers. So as you’re reading your five books a month, add this one to the mix is going to make a difference.

But Stacey, I really loved our conversation today. I know that you have your book, your program, your community. For our listeners out there, what’s the best place for people to go out to to thank you for this episode but also learn more about what you’re up to?

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, so my home base is my website, StaceyBrownRandall.com. And of course, Stacey is spelled with an E. If they want to learn more about the program, it’s called Growth by Referrals. So, of course the webpage is the same name as the name of the program, Growth by Referrals.

But really, you’re linking to the book. I think that is the best place to start is just soak in what I teach in Generating Business Referrals Without Asking, because that’ll tell you, okay, is this the model I want to follow in my business? And if it’s yes, then great. And if it’s not, that’s okay too.

Raul Hernandez: That’s awesome. We’ll put those links in the show notes. Stacey, thank you again.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Raul Hernandez: Thanks for joining me for my podcast takeover on the Roadmap to Referrals podcast. I hope that you visit my podcast, Do Good Work. You can connect with me on LinkedIn and all the links will be found below on the show notes. Now, back to Stacey.

Stacey Brown Randall: I hope you enjoyed this episode, and please don’t forget to show our hosts some love. Make sure you are checking out Raul’s podcast, Do Good Work, and of course, check out his company and connect with him on social media.

The links to do all of that so you can learn more about Raul can be found on the show notes page for this episode, StaceyBrownRandall.com/373.

Well, we have reached the end of our podcast takeover. This has been a really fun series for me to do.

I wasn’t sure how it was all gonna work out and if the people I asked would say yes and participate, because it wasn’t just as simple as giving us their raw files or the podcast files they did for their show. It wasn’t just that.

They then, as you know, had to record an intro and an outro so they could actually welcome you guys to this episode. And if you’re brand new to this podcast, you could actually understand why somebody else was hosting the show.

So I really enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed it as well. I do want to quickly say thank you to all of our guests. It would not have been possible if these guest hosts did not take the time to allow us to share the interview they did with me on their podcast.

So to Jay Berkowitz, to Larry Kendall, to Michele Williams, to Jenny Bukolt, to Marlon Griffith, to LuAnn Nigara, to Jay Tinkler, and of course, to today’s host, Raul Hernandez, thank you, my friends. I appreciate you.

They were very awesome and very generous allowing me to share their interview they did with me here on this podcast.

So there were more interviews that I wanted to include, but unfortunately, we ran out of daylight, as they say. Well, in our case, we ran out of summer since it was the summer series for the podcast takeover.

I don’t know about you, but actually some of my kids head back to school next week. I mean, I have, two boys heading into their senior year of high school, two of them, and then of course our daughter is heading into her sophomore year of high school.

Can you please send prayers? I’m pretty sure we’re going to need it as we get through this last year for the boys of high school.

But if you did love the podcast takeover. If you loved this format, if you found it informative and interesting to hear how other people interview me and ask me questions and how I answer those questions, then definitely let me know.

Just shoot me a direct message on LinkedIn or Instagram and let me know that you liked the podcast takeover because I’m actually considering bringing it back for next year, for next summer. And so I want to know, of course, if you enjoyed it.

Alright, even though the podcast takeover may be ending, the podcast is not. We are back with another great episode next week created with you and your needs in mind. Until then, you know what to do, my friend. Take control of your referrals and build a referable business. Bye for now.