Ep #354: Power of Communication & Referrals

Stacey Brown Randall: Hey there, and welcome to the Roadmap to Referrals podcast, a show that proves you can generate referrals without asking or manipulation.

I’m your host, Stacey Brown Randall. I’m a card-carrying member of the Business Failure Club, have taught my referrals without asking methodology and strategy to clients in more than 14 countries around the world, and my mission is to help you unleash a referral explosion by leveraging the science of referrals and respecting your relationships.

I am excited for this episode to welcome one of my Building a Referable Business, or BRB, coaching clients to the podcast. So please help me welcome Jeni Bukolt to the podcast.

Now, before I dive into our interview, just a little bit about Jeni. She is the founder of Haven Creative Agency. It is a B2B communications and creative agency.

So thinking about what Jeni does with Haven Creative, as a communication consultancy, they help organizations grow and drive results through brand positioning, strategic communications, PR, and advertising.

So I’m excited for you guys to hear Jeni. So Jeni, just to give you a little bit of backstory, Jeni joined the BRB, Building a Referable Business Coaching Program, in late December, 2023.

So her first full year really in the program was January ‘24 through December ‘24. And then in December of ‘24, she renewed, and so now she is in her second year within the BRB coaching program.

So I wanted to have an interview with Jeni because I wanted for you to have the ability to kind of listen to someone talk about what a full year was actually like. And what I love about Jeni is that, yes, she had success, and we’re going to talk about it.

We’ll get to the results, the numbers, and all those great things. But what I love about Jeni is that she’s really honest when she struggled. And so I think that’s so important.

If you’re ever considering joining any coaching program, whether it’s mine or anybody else’s, or you’re considering working with me at the referral accelerator or the VIP level, it’s knowing that whereas, yes, my clients have great results, but it comes because they do the work.

And one of the things that Jeni will talk about is where there were some struggles with her early in the BRB coaching program to kind of like find her footing and get moving on doing the work.

So I don’t want to ruin it. I think the way Jeni talks about her own story is really important here. So I will let Jeni do that.

But of course, we will also talk about what it looks like from a referral perspective with making sure that her team members understand what they’ve learned and putting into place and so that everybody is firing on the same cylinder, so to speak, for the referral work that they are doing.

And then, of course, we’re going to talk results. So you know what? Without further ado, let’s just dive into the interview with Jeni.

Let her talk to you about what worked, where she struggled, where she had to get some additional support from me, and then, of course, the results that she had as well. Alright, now to the interview.

Jeni, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast. It’s always fun to have someone on the podcast where one, I’ve been on their podcast, so that’s always awesome. And then, of course, to just spend some time chatting with my clients. That is such a highlight for me.

And so I’m so glad to have you on the podcast. Now, before we dive into all things referrals, of course, which is what we’re going to spend our time talking about, I want to make sure you have an opportunity to kind of share with my audience a little bit about what you do.

Because I find the work that you do fascinating, and it’s not what you would typically expect, like from the perspective of the type of clients you work with and things like that. So can you share a little bit about your business?

Jeni Bukolt: Absolutely. First, thank you so much for having me. It’s definitely fun to continue the conversation after the last podcast. I think we have a lot of similarities in how we think and feel about life and business. So it’s really cool to share that with you.

So Haven Creative is a brand communications company. I kind of live by the motto that all problems in business stem from communication, something not said or misunderstood.

So we work with automotive aftermarket brands primarily to help them streamline their communication from the inside out.

So employee newsletters and strategic storytelling and sales playbooks to then the PR and advertising so they can reach their business goals, but ultimately to build community and enthusiasts around their brands.

Stacey Brown Randall: I think that’s so awesome because, you know, I’m a big believer in communication can solve all things as well. I think it’s why my master’s degree was in communication.

And I specifically remember, I know we didn’t talk about this before, but I specifically remember when I onboarded you into BRB, the Building a Referable Business Coaching Program, I remember you laughing at one point and you’re like, you’ve said that a couple of times. You must have a reason for that, a reason to restate certain things about how the program works.

And I was like, yes, because all things need to be said, typically more than once, because adults are usually, I mean, and teens, but adults are running in a million different directions, and half the time we’re not listening, even when we say we are, so.

Jeni Bukolt: Yes, actually. I will say I absolutely love your training modules and can tell as a communication professional myself how intentional you are in the way you deliver the modules and that you repeat it.

What is the saying is that you have to tell people seven times, but I think you’re doing it seven times seven. But it makes it easier to digest and easier to take action on and also keeping it top of mind, right? So I can think of what Stacey told me was this, like it’s already just kind of drilled into my brain.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes. Well, I think it’s really important because we do, we stuff a lot of information into our brains and then we expect ourselves to remember a lot. So I think that it’s just very, very necessary. Okay, cool. Well, let’s dive in then.

So I always want to start with having business owners that are listening to this podcast, I want them to kind of get the idea of why another business owner would talk about referrals and would focus on referrals and would join a program to learn more about referrals. So why are referrals so important to your business?

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah. And you might say you’re in a branding and communications company. Don’t you know how to get your own business? You’re a marketer, right? It’s different. B2B relationships are about relationships. That’s how you get sales.

And sometimes we think of these in marketing. These are transactional, this lead gen, it’s more of a commoditized, I don’t know, fast, quick turn. And I’m not selling a product or a widget. I’m selling services. So the relationship is so important to me.

And when I dove into the strategy of how we get business at Haven, the number one way was through referrals. Yet I had never intentionally focused on building out a referral program.

So your brand being referrals, being the maven of referrals, it was a no brainer for me to reach out to you and say, okay, help me, teach me the secret sauce to building out an intentional program to get more referrals.

So that’s really why I started with it. After working with hundreds of brands over the last 15 years, I will tell you that word of mouth and referrals is the number one way that most of our B2B clients get business. So why not focus on a program that does that?

Stacey Brown Randall: I know, and yet there are thousands of other ways, the bright, shiny objects, the should dos, the coulda dos of how you can generate business that are out there vying for people’s attention and people are spending so much money on them.

So much money, and mostly, and I’m talking about those digital marketing strategies, but not all. Some of them are offline marketing strategies. And there are a lot that are out there that are competing for our attention and our dollars in terms of how we should be spending our money from that perspective to bring in clients.

I always tell folks, referrals shouldn’t be the only thing you’re focused on, but I’m selfish. And so for me and my clients, I want it to be the biggest piece of the pie. But I certainly understand that there are typically more than one way, that you’re going to bring in clients.

But not having that referral strategy when, as to your point, most of the business is going to happen that way, particularly when you’re in B2B. It’s just crazy to not have that foundation in place and to have that information working within your business.

Jeni Bukolt: Yes, no, I’m glad you said that because I do look at as an ecosystem. It’s a multi touch point approach.

You do need to have all the parts because especially coming from branding, you know, you realize that someone sees you on a magazine listing, on a podcast, then they go to your website and then all those little things become part of that funnel that leads them to you.

But what I love about your process is it humanizes it. And I think that’s something we’re missing in the digital landscape of today and the AI and the tools that are coming out is stepping back and realizing that most of us are missing that human centric connection, that approach.

And I like that it pulls in a personality, a feeling, a handwritten component. It makes you stand out in this world of just like high, fast-paced content coming at you constantly. It breaks through the noise.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, that’s such a good way to, kind of when you encapsulate it in that way, right? I mean, it’s just it’s like old school, but like not like old school, like uncool, but in a way that it’s like going back to the basics of business and relationships.

I mean, and that’s one of the reasons why. And I know you guys know this going through the program is that I’m such a big believer in protecting your relationships above all else.

Like not doing things to exploit them, not doing things to take advantage, not doing things to try to leverage what you can out of something, but really understanding that you can care about people and still ultimately get what you’re hoping to receive as well if you’re willing to put the relationship first and willing to put in the work and willing to be like show up authentically and in a genuine way.

And I think a lot of people think that that’s not a part of the equation. And it’s like the main part of the equation for it working.

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah. I think that some people think of it as a salesy thing. And I think that that gives me the ick, you know, thinking of like, I’m going to do this just to get a lead or a client. If you approach it that way and then you’re not authentic, I think it does read off that way. And so what I do like about the approach is the authenticity behind it.

And you mentioned the handwritten, and I joked with you, I think a few weeks ago, how I hand wrote 25 cards and I was like, wow, I haven’t hand wrote that much. I’m like, my hand’s hurting. But I’ve gotten such great positive feedback from the people that have received my handwritten notes. And there’s a difference in that.

Stacey Brown Randall: There totally is. I mean, it’s like so simple, right? It’s like back to the basics. It’s like sometimes when I have conversations with people, they’re like, exactly how do we do this? And I’m like, it’ll be easier than you think. Like you don’t have to be over complicated with it.

Alright. So I know that you have had a number of ahas in kind of working with us and having Kelsey from your team work with us as well inside the coaching program.

But if you had to boil it down to, and this could be a minor one or a major one, but if you had to kind of like boil it down to like one or two things that you feel like are the biggest shifts in terms of, or that aha moment or that light bulb moment that kind of gone off in your head when it comes to referrals after joining BRB, what would you say that is?

Stacey Brown Randall: Hey there, pardon the interruption. There are only two days left to sign up for my free live training coming up on March 27th. I can’t wait to show you the behind the scenes of how I double, triple, and yes, sometimes quadruple my clients’ referrals. Register now while you can at StaceyBrownRandall.com/workshop.

Jeni Bukolt: Sure, actually I have a couple of aha moments. The first one that came to mind is when you mentioned Kelsey. So when you first onboarded me, I’m super excited, so enthusiastic. I’m going to blow through these modules. I’m going to be your referral champion.

And a month or two in, I started to stress because I was falling behind. And I really felt this weight of like, oh my gosh, I’m failing. I’m investing in this. And what am I doing?

Because I have to also run the business, and it did feel like a lot at first. And then I pulled in my executive assistant who is really also my sales assistant and all things to help me get things done. And pulled her into the program with me. And we really arm and arm went through it together.

And so she helped me build out. We have meetings about our touchpoint plans and she helped me actually, you know, type it out for me. So it took some of that administrative lift off of me, but also made sure it happened.

So when we were ready to design our thank you cards, you know, she’s helping design them and get them ordered. So then they’re shipped to my house, just little things that took off my plate that release the amount of stress I was having initially.

But then taking it a step further, my next aha moment. So my first one being it’s okay to get help, you know, along the way.

My second one was we started training our team on the referral seed language. And why that’s incredibly powerful is that oftentimes in businesses, people don’t realize that your entire organization is in charge of your brand, you know, how it’s represented, how you’re speaking to your clients, referral partners, vendors, what have you.

So giving them specific language that they could use to maybe initiate a referral conversation or to get a client or partner think of Haven and keep us top of mind was super powerful.

And knowing that we’re really doing now kind of this team referral program to generate more relationships. I say relationships, not sales. Generate more relationships. So that has been very powerful as well.

Stacey Brown Randall: No, that’s awesome. And I think that, you know, so there’s definitely, you know there’s a lot of people listening to this episode and they’re like, that’s my big fear that I’ll invest in something and then I won’t go through it, right?

I mean, that’s all of our fears for anything that we do. And it’s a commitment, right? And sometimes people have to get help to help them get through things. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

And then we probably have a number of solopreneurs who are listening and they’re like, but I don’t have a Kelsey in my life. I don’t have somebody that I could pull in. Like I’m thinking about one of the one of the guys in the program right now that it’s just him and his business.

And so, when he comes to me and he is like, okay, this is a little bit, I’m trying to figure out the logistical lift of this. I’m like, hey, here’s the things that I did. before I had my assistant Kathy helping me do things. And he was like, oh my God, that’s amazing.

So like, it doesn’t necessarily have to be that you, yes, you have to go through the trainings, no matter how you’re going to do that. That has to happen. You can’t like bypass that. The information just cannot be like downloaded into your brainstem. Like that’s not how it works. You have to actually go through and watch the information.

But outside of that, the ability to get help I think it’s one of the smartest things as business owners we do. And in his case, right, I mean, we didn’t look outside his family for the help that he needed.

Like he just happened to have what he needed that could help him do some things that he was getting stuck on. And I was like, here’s how that could look. And I gave him a couple of options. He was like, oh, my God, this is great.

So, you know, I think for anybody that’s listening, that’s like that’s their hold up is the I’m going to have to take some time and I’m going to have to go through some things and learn some things and train some people. Yes. That is the answer that you’re going to have to do that.

And you’re going to have to decide that it’s worth it for you. And for you, you knew instantly how to get yourself over the hump. You’re like, wait a minute, I got somebody I can bring on board that can help me do this. And it makes life easier.

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah, so I have a tip on that too, is setting aside time and being realistic on the runway. I think that I was so gung-ho trying to think I was going to get it up and running in the first 90 days.

And perhaps the realistic expectations of not trying to rush through it, but going, okay, I’m going to, you know, eat the elephant one bite at a time, if you will, but I didn’t have to go through every single module in two weeks. I could carve out an hour each week.

And then eventually I carved out a half hour each day to really focus on my BRB tasks. So that helped me. Just think about one small thing each day I can do to get to that.

Another point I want to make is we talk about the value of our time. And when you are a solopreneur, I think at first, we’re thinking we have to do everything.

But if we look at investing in referrals as a very high valued item, and putting the side, getting help on the things that maybe aren’t as high value.

Like maybe it is booking the restaurant or taking the dry cleaning, or where are you putting your focus on things that maybe aren’t as high value that that could be what’s off-boarded so that you can focus on your BRB to scale your business.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, it’s all about what you’re willing to commit to. I mean, that is ultimately whatever you’re willing to commit to, usually you’re willing to put time and energy behind.

And that has to be, it’s what I tell folks all the time. They’re like, I want to join the program. I’m like, but you’re trying to launch a new website and bring on three new staff members. Why don’t you just wait and then join the program? It’ll still be there. Like you don’t have to join today.

Because you’re right, because it is a commitment to kind of go through it. And you know, it’s interesting, people ask me all the time, they’re like, for those clients of yours, Stacey, where I see the results and they like hit their goal in their first 90 days, they’re like, did they get it all done in the program?

I’m like, no, usually their ability to hit their goal in the first 90 days is not because they went through all of the training modules of all of the trainings that are available, it’s because they needed one or two of them.

And when they put them in place, then they started to see really fast results. And that’s all based on where they’re starting from. And everyone starts from a different place.

Okay, so let’s talk about kind of, before we talk about the results, because I know people want to talk numbers. They always want to like hear the things that have happened and all the good stuff, right?

But before we get there, I want to do a little like think into the future first, before we talk about what the results have been for you over your first year.

So now that you and your team have these referral strategies, and you have them in place and you’re working on them and you’re improving upon them and you’re still doing new things when you need to. But now that you guys have these things in place, what are you most hopeful about for the future?

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah, I mean, I think like a lot of business owners, I’m most hopeful to keep growing my business. So I think about how I can continue to scale the referral program, you know, as we scale as an organization.

I think that’s actually one of the things I always stress about is how do I continue to build the brand experience as we grow our team? It’s a fear of mine from going from a solopreneur to having team members is making sure that all of our team members are still delivering the same brand experience that I would as if it were me in front of a client.

And again, what I like about the referral program is I’m giving my team language so that we’re all consistent about what we’re saying and the type of brand experience we’re giving our clients. So I just hope to continue to scale that behavior and feeling as we grow.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, no, I think that’s perfect. Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about results.

So as you know, it’s funny when I always do these, I would go into folks’ trackers. And when I talk about in the podcast, you should be tracking your results. Like I also know that like, it’s exactly what all my clients have in place.

So I can go into our shared Google Drive that we have with you, and I can go in and I can pull up your tracker and I can look at your results.

And so just thinking about when you joined in December of 2023 so really kind of like your first year starting in January all through 2024 January through December of 2024, your goal, based on previous results you’d had, your goal was, you wanted 10 referrals, which doesn’t sound like a lot, probably for some people listening.

But what clients do with you and how long that they are with you, you’re not one of those businesses that needs 100 clients in a year. In fact, you probably couldn’t even handle that. I’m not even quite sure you can handle like, you know, 30, 40 or 50 clients in a year.

Like, this is like, you do high level work, big engagements with clients that last a long time, and you only need a dozen or so, give or take, new clients a year.

So you set your goal in 2024 is that you wanted 10 referrals. And it’s so fun for me to always be able to announce when we surpass a goal. And you got 15 referrals last year. And of those 15, six of them came from new people you had cultivated into new referral sources.

So new people that had started to refer you. So 15 referrals, your goal was 10, you got 15, and six of them are new, coming from new people referring you. So tell me a little bit about how that feels.

Knowing kind of where you were in January, February of 2024 being like, ah, I’m falling behind, I need help. And then getting to the end of the year and being like, whoa, I surpassed my goal. Like, how does that feel for you? What are your thoughts on that?

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah, I mean, it feels great. We hit a higher revenue than we had ever done business to date.

But going backwards, I think when you talk about your tracker, it’s so important for business owners to, if you can measure it, you can improve it, but to track it, not just to have a goal set, but to look back like you’re doing.

I can tell you in the 15 years of running Haven or so, I really was terrible about looking back and celebrating wins. So I absolutely love, and even when you just told me that, I was like, Oh, we did. I didn’t even realize that.

I knew I have a goal, but I have my next goal, right? So I’m constantly looking for the next, the next, I mean, obviously I felt it in my revenue. I knew referrals are working. People are telling me word of mouth that’s working.

But I love now hearing it going, Oh, that’s awesome. You know, look back and celebrate how far you’ve come. so important. So yes, it feels really great, and it felt even better when you just said it because that was kind of a fun surprise.

Stacey Brown Randall: That is awesome. It reminds me of that book by Ben Hardy and okay, I’m drawing a blank, but The Gap and The Gain. What’s the guy who started Strategic Coach?

Jeni Bukolt: Oh, okay, I’ve read that. I’m a book nerd. I have like three books on my nightstand. I’m reading business books constantly, so I’ll just add it to my list.

Stacey Brown Randall: Add it to the list. It’s such a good book, but the whole premise behind the book, I’ll sum it up for you in like three sentences.

But the whole premise behind the book is that when we start businesses, there is like, whether we’ve always been like this or something happens when we decide to become a business owner, an entrepreneur, we start getting really, really focused on the gap.

Like the, I should be further along. I’m surprised I’m not here yet. Wow, it took me eight years to get there. I thought I would get there in four. We focus a lot on the gap.

And we’re always like looking back, right, from a gap perspective when we should be looking back and looking forward from a gain perspective. Like, yes, there may be some, but look at all the progress that we’ve made. And we just don’t do that enough.

Jeni Bukolt: No. Why?

Stacey Brown Randall: Right? We got to focus on the gain. Like regardless of the gaps, we still have, we’ve made some major gains. Like you had your biggest revenue year last year, right? I did too. So I think that’s something we’re like twinsies in that. That’s something we have in common.

But I think it’s that idea of understanding that no matter what we are still trying to accomplish, we are accomplishing so much more than we typically stop, pay attention to, and then give ourselves credit for.

So it’s just so important. I think we pay attention to the gain, and you have had some gains in revenue last year. And then, of course, gains in your referrals as well. So congratulations.

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah, no, it’s great. And when now we have a plan and year two made so much more sense for me with you, because now it’s like, okay, last year was about building a foundation. Now it’s about growing that.

And so I think looking back, I go, that’s okay that I didn’t get everything done in 90 days because I really spent time building the appropriate foundation, training the team, and now we have this engine. Now it’s about continuing to keep it going.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yes, that’s so awesome. Okay, cool. So what would you say to someone that you were planning to refer to me about why they should just bite the bullet and just join the coaching program or work with me in one of my other ways?

Jeni Bukolt: I have lots of things. Let’s see. Well, okay, so the first one that came top of mind was that a lot of my fellow entrepreneurs will say, well, I get business word of mouth, but I know I need, I need to focus on like paid advertising or I should do this. So there’s lots of shoulds out there. I think we mentioned it earlier.

But sometimes those higher-priced items don’t deliver the returns they’re looking for. They’re focusing on the wrong thing, right? So I would go back to where does business come from?

And I guarantee you the majority still says word of mouth and referrals. So when I ask them, you know, how are you building more referrals? They usually don’t have an answer.

So my recommendation is, go see Stacey because you’re going to be able to build out an intentional, authentic referral program that you can measure and see measurable results.

And I think that’s the key right there is that we’re setting aside time to focus on a high-value item for our business that’s going to drive true return.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, I think that’s so important for people to understand is that you took the time and invested in the program and then did the work and got support when you needed it.

And you’ve then taken it and like permeated it out through your team. And now you’re kind of in, hey, second year, here we go. Now we have these things in place. It’s just, we gotta just keep it going, right? And keep that momentum behind it and keep it going.

Because the truth is, and you hit the nail on the head, is your business is always gonna grow by relationships. And so making sure you have the right strategies in place are so very important. And I think that that’s something that people need to hear over and over and over again.

So I’m so glad that you came on the podcast so that we can tell them that they need to understand how valuable referrals are in their business. But really at the heart of that is the relationships in their business and understanding that.

It is always it’s always fun for me to hear a client talk about because even though I know some of the things that you were going to say, because obviously we talk about them throughout the year when like different things happen and like you share things or whatever.

But it is always great for me to hear a client kind of talk about it from like, okay, like this was my experience, and this is what I thought, and these are my aha moments, and this is what I’m hopeful for for the future.

Like those things are really exciting for me because obviously everybody wants their clients to be happy with the work that they do.

Jeni Bukolt: I have one more thing to add because I was thinking you said aha moments, and I think we didn’t touch on this but it’s also such a critical component of being part of your team is having you as a coaching resource.

So we were going through a difficult situation where someone wanted to give us a referral, but it didn’t feel authentic. It was over an email. I remember I picked up the phone and we talked about it, and you immediately shifted my perspective on how I would respond to that email to make a much more valuable feedback and approach to that referral.

So it was a client partner who wanted to give us a referral over an email. It just felt kind of salesy and inauthentic. And I shifted the way I responded to it and just made a better introduction for us. And it did result in a true meeting with the right referral person. So that was helpful.

Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, I think that’s sometimes what people don’t realize is that, you know, I talked about this recently on a podcast that when I set in place my goals for my business, like how many new people do I want to bring into the coaching program or work at the VIP level or even bring into the Referral Accelerator?

Most people are surprised to know that it’s like 12 or less each time. I’m not looking to bring on 50 new people into the coaching program, like I’m looking to bring on 12 new people in a year, because exactly what you just said.

When you find yourself in a situation where you’re like, I don’t know how to respond, but I do know responding is going to impact what happens going forward. I don’t want to be so buried in my email or so buried in my workload that I can’t hop on the phone with you.

Because when I got your email, I was like, uh-uh, we’re going to talk through this. I don’t even want to email back a response to you. Call me. Here’s my cell phone. Let’s talk about this.

Because I knew, first of all, we could talk about it way faster than I could type out a response that wouldn’t get lost in translation to you.

And that I also know sometimes I want to have that freedom and flexibility to just like, let’s just talk about this, right? Like, let’s just talk through it because that’s really what people need is they need somebody that they know they can just call and we’ll be there and be like, what is the situation? And here is the best advice that I can give you.

And I think that when you’re in a program where there’s 30, 50, hundreds of people, you just never get the person leading the program’s attention. And I never wanted to build something like that.

So it’s all built intentionally for moments like that. So I’m so glad you shared that. Thank you.

Jeni Bukolt: Yeah, it’s great. And in the Q&A sessions, all of that, like you said, you’re building a community and you’re building authentic relationship with you. So it’s great.

Stacey Brown Randall: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it.

Jeni Bukolt: Happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Stacey Brown Randall: Well, I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did with Jeni. She is such a treat to have on the podcast, and I love the fact that I get to work with her for a second year, her and Kelsey, her team member.

So if you want to connect with Jeni, we are going to have all of her links to her website, LinkedIn, and Instagram on the show notes page for this episode. which can be found at StaceyBrownRandall.com/354. That’s StaceyBrownRandall.com/354. And don’t forget, Stacey has an E.

Well, I hope you enjoy this interview as much as Jeni and I enjoyed being able to record it. Please check her out on LinkedIn and Instagram. Check out her website. If you need her help, she is a master and a maven at what she does.

Alright, we’re back with another great episode next week created with you and your needs in mind. Until then, you know what to do, my friend. Take control of your referrals and build a referable business. Bye for now.